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Deivasigamani
Member


Reged: 01/29/01
Posts: 37
Loc: Bangalore, Karnataka, India
Hourly rate for QA/Test Engineer in India and in US
      #173111 - 12/24/02 12:53 AM

Hi friends,

I would like to know the hourly rate for

1)QA/Test engineer in India and in US.

2) To do testing for US based companies in India itself.

(i.e,) Hourly rate both in INR and USD.

Thanking you,

Regards,
R.Deiva

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Jeanj
Moderator


Reged: 02/25/00
Posts: 2079
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Re: Hourly rate for QA/Test Engineer in India and in US
      #173112 - 12/24/02 03:38 AM

My friend, the subject you're speaking of is actually a pretty sensitive one right now. I'm not sure the answer is going to be what you want to hear.

Many IT jobs in the US in the last two years have been outsourced to India and other off-shore countries and there has been a rather high unemployment rate here and a considerable drop in wages.

This is not your fault, nor is the fault of India or any of the other countries that have had increases in jobs due to the outsourcing of the US jobs.

However, you may find some resentment here and may not get a real positive answer from some of the US QA people.

I do wish you luck in your endeavors though.

------------------
-- Jean

Something that you say or do today will make a difference to someone else.
Make it a GOOD thing!


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Joe Strazzere
Moderator


Reged: 05/15/00
Posts: 12344
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Re: Hourly rate for QA/Test Engineer in India and in US
      #173113 - 12/24/02 05:18 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Deivasigamani:
Hi friends,

I would like to know the hourly rate for

1)QA/Test engineer in India and in US.

2) To do testing for US based companies in India itself.

(i.e,) Hourly rate both in INR and USD.

Thanking you,

Regards,
R.Deiva


The hourly rate for any job varies based on the specifics of the job, the experience of the individual, the location, the company, etc, etc.

If I told you "anywhere from $10 to $250 per hour" it wouldn't be much help, but it would be the truth.

I'm guessing you are really trying to find out how much you are worth as a "QA/Test Engineer". One way to determine this is to go to an agency. Often, they can look at your relevant experience and give you an idea of the jobs you could get, along with the rates.

Since this post doesn't seem to have anything to do with Performance & Load Testing, I'll move it to the General forum.

------------------
- Joe (strazzerj@aol.com)

[This message has been edited by jstrazzere (edited 12-24-2002).]

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jimhazen
Super Member


Reged: 01/31/02
Posts: 2003
Loc: Highlands Ranch, CO, USA
Re: Hourly rate for QA/Test Engineer in India and in US
      #173114 - 12/24/02 10:39 AM

Currently (based on my research on Offshore vs. Onshore outsourcing) I am seeing a difference of the cost of a resource from offshore being about 20-30% of what a U.S. resource is. Meaning, as an example, if a U.S. outsource resource is $75/hr., then an offshore resource is about $15 to $22 per hour. This is based on information from articles from the last 1 to 2 years. I would expect a lot of U.S. outsource companies have dropped their rates to stay competitive.

Anybody else with some semi-hard numbers to throw out here?

Jim

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AJModerator
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Reged: 06/26/99
Posts: 1766
Loc: San Jose, CA
Re: Hourly rate for QA/Test Engineer in India and in US
      #173115 - 12/24/02 10:56 AM

Well I've seen the US companies drop their rates to 25-50/hr, but can still go as high as 100 or a bit more.

Indian companies charge $20-25/hr and they actually pay their employees about $300-500/month! OK given a 40 hour week which is never true really because the conditions are not that good for workers there, they get an average of $2.5/hr! I would say anybody that actually has an outsourcing company in India is a rich person!

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Jeanj
Moderator


Reged: 02/25/00
Posts: 2079
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Re: Hourly rate for QA/Test Engineer in India and in US
      #173116 - 12/24/02 01:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by AJ:
Well I've seen the US companies drop their rates to 25-50/hr, but can still go as high as 100 or a bit more.

Indian companies charge $20-25/hr and they actually pay their employees about $300-500/month! OK given a 40 hour week which is never true really because the conditions are not that good for workers there, they get an average of $2.5/hr! I would say anybody that actually has an outsourcing company in India is a rich person!


And the people working for them at $2.50 an hour ...ouch!!


------------------
-- Jean

Something that you say or do today will make a difference to someone else.
Make it a GOOD thing!

[This message has been edited by Jeanj (edited 12-24-2002).]

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cvik
Junior Member


Reged: 08/15/02
Posts: 22
Loc: MENLO PARK, CA, USA
Re: Hourly rate for QA/Test Engineer in India and in US
      #173117 - 12/24/02 08:42 PM

I was performance tester in US, till my company restructured and I came back to India. I have seen performance tester rates as low as 20$/hour ( some company in Arizona, offering that for one month contract without relocation compensation). Highest rate may be 75$/hour. Mercury Interactive consultants may be getting that rate.

AJ correctly said the companies who are really making the killing today are the outsource companies like Infosys, Wipro etc. They are really milking the money. Another thing, salaries are better here now a days- say Infosys would offer 500-800$ per month. Cost of living is low if you are staying in your own house. I struggled hard in US and tried to retain my job and get a new job later. But now it seems to me, that at kind of depressed salaries over there I may as well make same saving here and also be with my family. Today I work on a project for US based client.
Now regards the work quality- there was a time when it was hard to get good resources as all of them used to go to US, today the skill level is much better as we have a lot of people who have come back from US. The only things that matter are that a. excessive politics resulting in slow/unimaginative decision making. In other words I can also say poor management. Every Indian agrees that Indian management is really screwed up and b. Higher system down time and slower network and systems. In the quest for rich profits companies are not proactive in upgrading the systems and the sufferers are we the testers/developers.

Before I left US I applied to a lot of places but I did not get many calls and got just one interview. Then I was piqued at kind of requirements employers were asking for- mainframe+j2ee+db2+python experience etc. Ironically today many of them including one best of the breed company ask when I will come to US.
It is reasonable for many of you in US to resent that your jobs are being taken away, but remember that the dice is always loaded in your favour. One big reason why I could not land a job in US was that I was not a citizen. My technical skills will not help me the bridge this lacuna.
I hope economy recovers by second half of '03 and the employers start finding paucity of desired skills.

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RSBarber
Moderator


Reged: 07/18/02
Posts: 1949
Loc: Palm Bay, FL USA
Re: Hourly rate for QA/Test Engineer in India and in US
      #173118 - 12/24/02 09:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by cvik:
I was performance tester in US, till my company restructured and I came back to India. I have seen performance tester rates as low as 20$/hour ( some company in Arizona, offering that for one month contract without relocation compensation). Highest rate may be 75$/hour. Mercury Interactive consultants may be getting that rate.



These conversations about rates never cease to amaze me.

Mercury consultants and other Performance Testers associated with name companies (To include Rational and even my company) would absolutely laugh at a rate of $75/hour for a Performance Tester. Standard is closer to $200. At one time we were getting $250 - one time for an emergency performance engineering effort one of our consultants got $400/hr (granted, he worked 60 hours in 3 days and was successful).

I am currently on a 6+ month Performance Engineering engagement where I am getting between $125 and $150/hour and we only agreed to rates that low because the market is tough and it is an extremely long engagement for performance. Normally we would not accept rates that low.

Rational's base rate (I don't know if they negotiate) is (or was as recently as 6 months ago) $200/hr.

If I were independant, I don't think I would take a job at $75/hr. If you figure 2000 hours a year (standard year, 40 hour weeks, 2 weeks vacation) and that a consultant idealy should bill 75% of the time - that makes 1500 hours. 1500 hours X $75/hr is $112,500 a year before taxes, before healthcare, etc, etc, etc. If that person had amazing rates on health care, insurance, etc AND NO OPERATIONAL OVERHEAD EXPENSES they would only be making $100k a year. My estimation (and I have done this math in detail - many times) is that it would be closer to equivalent to a salary of $75 or $80,000 at a company with benefits.

Now, maybe I'm crazy, but there is NO WAY I would sacrifice salary with benefits, to take a chance that I could (if I got as much work as I hoped and had no marketing expenses) make about the same amount of money, but take the risk of making nothing.

Call me arrogant, but if I were an independant, even in today's economy, I'd be asking $250/hour and be willing to settle for $200/hour if I thought the work was good.

Don't know if that really has anything to do with what you were asking, but I've read so many discussions about how low rates are that I begin to wonder what is going on out there.

------------------
Scott Barber, Sr. Performance Engineer
sbarber@noblestar.com
http://www.noblestar.com
http://www.perftestplus.com


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cvik
Junior Member


Reged: 08/15/02
Posts: 22
Loc: MENLO PARK, CA, USA
Re: Hourly rate for QA/Test Engineer in India and in US
      #173119 - 12/26/02 08:40 AM

Hi Scott,
Thaks for a really comprehensive answer. My rates were based on rates ofered to me and from Dice. I think one reason why you enjoy good rates is that you are performance tester cum engineer to tune the app. Most likely you work alone in the team supported by a client engineer to take care of installations, backups etc. Defintely for performance tuning rates are very high. I have seen BEA consultants charging 2000$/day rate for tuning.

I just wonder why I was being quoted such low prices. Maybe invariable presence of two layers of recuiters siphoned off much of the money.
I have some more things in my mind. I hope you can find time sometime to answer them.
a. What distuingishes a 50$/hr performance 'tester' from 200$/hr 'tester/engineer'?
b. Why should a company shell out 200$/hour for performance engineer when it can get a Senior Java engineer only for 60-80$/hr?
Once again I would like to thank you for really precious information.
regards,
Vik

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jimhazen
Super Member


Reged: 01/31/02
Posts: 2003
Loc: Highlands Ranch, CO, USA
Re: Hourly rate for QA/Test Engineer in India and in US
      #173120 - 12/26/02 09:52 AM

Scott & Cvik,

The rate I quoted was for manual testing, and that was based on an average of the last two years or so. I have seen highs up to $125/hr. for manual, and lows at $45/hr. for an outsource U.S. company. Also, the ratio is based on some of the same articles for comparison to offshore.

Now the Automation and Performance/Load Test consultants & outsourcers (aside from the tool vendors) are getting about 33% to 50% more than manual testers. The tool vendors have always been over the top.

I think the days of the super high rates are gone (sorry). This is the law of equillibrium taking affect. But again, if your really good, know your stuff and have good references you will be making top rate. More power to ya. But in general with this economy the employers/clients are going to bargain hunt and chop at rates. I know, I have had my rates lowered. But I am working, unlike some other people.

Jim

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Cryptonomic
Member


Reged: 10/01/02
Posts: 66
Re: Hourly rate for QA/Test Engineer in India and in US
      #173121 - 12/26/02 10:18 AM

quote:
Originally posted by RSBarber:
I am currently on a 6+ month Performance Engineering engagement where I am getting between $125 and $150/hour and we only agreed to rates that low because the market is tough and it is an extremely long engagement for performance.

I agree Scott. I am currently doing a contract that is one of the lowest I have done ($95/hour). This is not for performance testing, however - at least not specifically. Like yours, mine is a relatively short-term contract in this particular instance.

quote:
If I were independant, I don't think I would take a job at $75/hr.

I would not either, but I have found this depends on the independent. I have seen many a person who has tried to make out on the independent path and charge ridiculous rates for their services when, in fact, they were really not providing all that much. I can tell you that when I go in, I offer a range of services that more than make up the rate I ask for. I have seen some that should not even be getting anywhere near $75/hour. (Which I suppose goes to cvik's question: "What distuingishes a 50$/hr performance 'tester' from 200$/hr 'tester/engineer'?")

quote:
Call me arrogant, but if I were an independant, even in today's economy, I'd be asking $250/hour and be willing to settle for $200/hour if I thought the work was good.

I would not call you arrogant, but perhaps unrealistic in some situations. I do not intend that as a lambasting of you, just a statement of possible caution. As I noted, I am on my lowest contract rate I have ever been on in four years but I can also say that I feel confident that based on what they need and what I have been asked to provide, it is a good and fair rate. Note, however, that you all seem to be talking about tool-based services for rates and that is rarely what I do. I usually do "full gamut" process services. So perhaps my comments are not relevant to that. I do think that independents have a great deal of leverage in this kind of economy, however, depending upon the service offered.

[This message has been edited by Cryptonomic (edited 12-26-2002).]

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Jeanj
Moderator


Reged: 02/25/00
Posts: 2079
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Re: Hourly rate for QA/Test Engineer in India and in US
      #173122 - 12/26/02 03:44 PM

A few months back I was offered $30 an hour as an independant. Yes - I turned it down, but when one is out of work, even that starts to look attractive when unemployment is $13 an hour.

------------------
-- Jean

Something that you say or do today will make a difference to someone else.
Make it a GOOD thing!


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jimhazen
Super Member


Reged: 01/31/02
Posts: 2003
Loc: Highlands Ranch, CO, USA
Re: Hourly rate for QA/Test Engineer in India and in US
      #173123 - 12/26/02 04:29 PM

To All,

I am seeing a trend here. One is the Performance Engineer and the other is a Performance Tester. Looking at the information I see the higher rate going to a Performance Engineer (someone who is more of a MCSE type of knowledge base) vs. the lower rate of a Load Test/Performance tester (someone who is a tester with Load/Performance tool knowledge). The higher rate charged by people who are doing the tuning and system setup for servers/sites is understandable. These are people who know BEA, Websphere, iPlanet, etc. and can justify the rates (if you really know what your doing with these then you deserve that higher rate).

The other people are test staff that can setup and run the tools to generate the loads for the performance tuning. This will lead to a higher rate in comparison to a manual tester. The client is paying for your knowledge of the tool and experience doing load testing. But in comparison you will be lower paid than the person who knows the actual server platforms themselves. I equate this to be like they days of C programmers vs. Cobol programmers. The C people got more money.

As far as an independent contractor vs. an outsource shop the rates will again widely range. A good independent who knows their worth will charge the higher rate (pay your own benefits, marketing, taxes, etc.) in comparison to a staff person (company pays all the stuff). You have to to make a profit. But again, with the current conditions the higher rates are coming down, for both types of people.

Scott - not singaling you out, but if your making $100K or better as an independent right now your a rarity if your just doing Load Testing/Performance with a Load tool. If your one of the people who actually know the server technology and how to tune it then your earning your just pay. And your lucky the company is paying it. I have several friends who are independent (most in the So. Cal. area) that have taken lower rates (not like 50% cuts, but 20-30%) to keep working.

Finally, I have seen the rates being more regionalized than in past years. Again; Seattle, L.A., San Francisco/Silicon Valley, New York, Virginia, Boston, Chicago will get higher rates due to various factors. Denver, Atlanta, Austin, Dallas, Houston, Portland, North Carolina are going for less. This is based on my research and experience the last couple of years.

But to get back to the topic at hand. In comparison to Offshore (India, China, Hong Kong, and Eastern Europe) the U.S. rates for an outsource company are much higher. Thus we are seeing a lot of work go offshore.

Regards,

Jim

------------------


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RSBarber
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Reged: 07/18/02
Posts: 1949
Loc: Palm Bay, FL USA
Re: Hourly rate for QA/Test Engineer in India and in US
      #173124 - 12/26/02 07:16 PM

Wow, seems I sparked quite a discussion. I'm going to summarize some of my thoughts, but am willing to expand if anyone is interested further.

First, definitions.

Performance Tester - Person who can design, develop and analyze performance tests using the tool/tools of the clients choice. Should be able to assist in pinpointing bottlenecks.

Performance Engineer - Methodology expert. Multi-tool expert. Can (virtually) always pinpoint bottlenecks. Can (virtually) always recommend CORRECT solutions to performance bottlenecks. Can work with development team to tune (most) aspects of the system under test. Can occasionally tune the sytem single-handedly. (plus design, develop, and analyze performance tests).

In short...

Performance Tester can tell you what the performance is and what the slow spots are FUNCTIONALLY.

Performance Engineer works collaboratively with the development team to detect, isolate and tune performance bottlenecks to achieve stated performance goals.

Other thoughts.

- tool vendors often over charge. Their "tool experts" often aren't all that good, and don't have the added methodology and tuning skills.

- maybe I would be disappointed at the rates I would get. maybe that is part of why I'm not independant.

- there are definately some amazingly high rates to be had out there - but mostly in "emergency" situations. If you are lucky enough to find one, and willing to work 20 hours a day until the emergency is resolved, you will get paid appropriately.

- for some reason, functional testers seem to get lower rates than performance testers and I really don't know why. When I get billed as a functional tester it is for less than I would bill for performance BUT Performance Engineering is my primary skillset, Functional Testing/Automation is something I do on the side. Therefor I don't deserve as high a rate. I don't think functional testers should be undersold. As a testiment to that, I won't execute a performance test on an function of an application that hasn't been listed as having no show stopping defects from the functional testers. Of course I think (and I could be wrong here) that there is an entry level to functional testing that doesn't exist in performance. (i.e "Here, follow this script and put a check in the box if the screen you see doesn't match the screen shot in this document"). Upper end functional testers/automaters will test, report specific defects, thier relationships to other functionality, and have it all automated for regression testing (positive and negative) so fast it will make your head spin. How can you put a price on defects found and a perminant regression suite to ENSURE quality of future releases?

- If I got to the point that I was willing to take $13/hr. I am 99% certain that I would be working at Home Depot instead (or whatever local hardware store gave the best employee discount)

------------------
Scott Barber, Sr. Performance Engineer
sbarber@noblestar.com http://www.noblestar.com http://www.perftestplus.com

[This message has been edited by RSBarber (edited 12-26-2002).]

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Jeanj
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Reged: 02/25/00
Posts: 2079
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Re: Hourly rate for QA/Test Engineer in India and in US
      #173125 - 12/27/02 03:48 AM

quote:
- If I got to the point that I was willing to take $13/hr. I am 99% certain that I would be working at Home Depot instead (or whatever local hardware store gave the best employee discount)

Sadly, Home Depot pays $8.50 an hour....
Strange how I will get more on unemployment than some other poor soul bustin' his him hauling lumber etc.

------------------
-- Jean

Something that you say or do today will make a difference to someone else.
Make it a GOOD thing!


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witchcrop
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Reged: 05/07/02
Posts: 306
Re: Hourly rate for QA/Test Engineer in India and in US
      #173126 - 12/27/02 04:49 AM

And the people working for them at $2.50 an hour ...ouch!!

One of the fundamental assumptions that is being made is that the cost and standard of living is same to every region or even country for that matter. Consider the exchange rates alone in this case, One US Dollar = 50 Rupees (approx). Add to that the kind of infrastructure that the people work with. Not exactly the state-of-the-art.

Considering all this the hourly rate does not actually sound that worse. I admit that it s very low, but the point is a direct baseline comparison cannot be made to that against the ones in another other geographical location. A lot of other factors have to be taken into consideration.

Lastly if they hadn't been charging so low, nothing else would have motivated the companies to offshore the jobs despite towering domestic resistance. Would it ?

------------------
never say die


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RSBarber
Moderator


Reged: 07/18/02
Posts: 1949
Loc: Palm Bay, FL USA
Re: Hourly rate for QA/Test Engineer in India and in US
      #173127 - 12/27/02 08:06 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Jeanj:
Sadly, Home Depot pays $8.50 an hour....
Strange how I will get more on unemployment than some other poor soul bustin' his him hauling lumber etc.


Yeah, but the 10% employee discount would cover the difference in my case.

Seriously though, there is nothing right about the disparity in pay between jobs. Am I worth what I make? I don't know, maybe. Am I worth double(ish) what a teacher with the same degrees and years of service as I have? I don't think so. Am I worth 100 times less than a professional athlete, I don't think so. <shrug>

------------------
Scott Barber, Sr. Performance Engineer
sbarber@noblestar.com
http://www.noblestar.com
http://www.perftestplus.com


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Joe Strazzere
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Reged: 05/15/00
Posts: 12344
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Re: Hourly rate for QA/Test Engineer in India and in US
      #173128 - 12/27/02 11:35 AM

quote:
Originally posted by RSBarber:
Seriously though, there is nothing right about the disparity in pay between jobs. Am I worth what I make? I don't know, maybe. Am I worth double(ish) what a teacher with the same degrees and years of service as I have? I don't think so. Am I worth 100 times less than a professional athlete, I don't think so. <shrug>

In a free market, you are worth what someone is willing to pay you.

Perhaps the issue is that the word "worth" is an overloaded term?

------------------
- Joe (strazzerj@aol.com)


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rtehve
Super Member


Reged: 08/21/00
Posts: 1437
Loc: Elanora Heights, NSW, Australi...
Re: Hourly rate for QA/Test Engineer in India and in US
      #173129 - 01/01/03 01:11 PM

Deivasigamani

I think I looked this up once and found that the US economy generates about 7 times the amount of the revenue of India and has about 1/4 of the population. Based on these broad figures one could easily imagine that an average worker in India would be earning 1/28 the salary of a US worker.

------------------
Robert Tehve
rtehve@bigpond.com


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jimhazen
Super Member


Reged: 01/31/02
Posts: 2003
Loc: Highlands Ranch, CO, USA
Re: Hourly rate for QA/Test Engineer in India and in US
      #173130 - 01/01/03 02:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rtehve:
Deivasigamani

I think I looked this up once and found that the US economy generates about 7 times the amount of the revenue of India and has about 1/4 of the population. Based on these broad figures one could easily imagine that an average worker in India would be earning 1/28 the salary of a US worker.


Robert,

Where did you see this? Do you remember, this would be good information for a paper/presentation I am working on. Thanks.

Jim

------------------


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