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Manjula_23s
Member


Reged: 07/04/07
Posts: 74
Loc: Karnataka,India
Why Product have Bugs
      #404347 - 08/06/07 10:07 PM

We do Testing,Verification and RTM ,After doing all these also customer will report bugs.
What may be the cause for it?

--------------------
Manjula


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DeadGrunt
Member


Reged: 10/30/06
Posts: 156
Loc: Vilnius, Lithuania
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: Manjula_23s]
      #404350 - 08/06/07 10:32 PM

1. testing environment is not customers environment

--------------------
Roman


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Manjula_23s
Member


Reged: 07/04/07
Posts: 74
Loc: Karnataka,India
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: DeadGrunt]
      #404366 - 08/06/07 11:16 PM

Hi DeadGrunt Though testing environment is not customers environment but in Testing env. we simulate the custoemr environment right?

--------------------
Manjula


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bru
Super Member


Reged: 05/08/03
Posts: 1383
Loc: Austria
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: Manjula_23s]
      #404370 - 08/06/07 11:21 PM

Sounds similar to my "real-life" problems (though your posting sounds like an interview question).

Our problem:
Poorly defined requirements. If you test against poor requirements, you will not find the bugs that will be a problem for the customer (who knows his requirements).

Regards,
Juergen


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rozeest
Member


Reged: 06/21/07
Posts: 56
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: bru]
      #404372 - 08/06/07 11:25 PM

Network settings at customer environment might be different from the testing environment network settings.

--------------------
Roze


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GoogleMonster
Member


Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 170
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: rozeest]
      #404379 - 08/06/07 11:37 PM

Correlate the reported bugs back to which requirements they relate to. Then check the test cases associated with those requirements to determine why these bugs were not detected during your formal test process.

There could be any one of a million reasons, but you won't find out why, and therefore what do do about it, unless you can cross-check and correlate your reported bugs/requirements/test cases/test results.

Once you've identified the common thread or cause, then obviously, you should fire him/her.

--------------------
You're not paranoid if they really are out to get you.


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alexxusz1980
Member


Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 226
Loc: Europe
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: GoogleMonster]
      #404432 - 08/07/07 01:58 AM

customers use software differently then testers. they sometimes use ways of working you might not even dream of because they don't really make sense.

--------------------
Nobody's perfect.


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Tarun_Bansal
Member


Reged: 07/16/07
Posts: 52
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: alexxusz1980]
      #404437 - 08/07/07 02:07 AM

Most of the times the Bugs in UAT are due to incorrect interpretation of the requirements by the developer and tester

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Rich W.Moderator
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Reged: 03/05/04
Posts: 5815
Loc: West Coast of the East Coast!
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: Tarun_Bansal]
      #404471 - 08/07/07 03:16 AM

I came across a document the other day in my current project that would print up to page 15. When page 16 started to print I was blue screened. Not the common blue screen, but the one you get when the OS crashes totally. On investigation only one of our sites did this, but on all of the machines and with different printers. It was a GIF file that caused it. We cut our the pix and converted it to JPG then back to GIF and no more problem. I suspect an interaction with the drivers used at our site. But, needles to say, it was a show-stopper.

--------------------
Personal Comment

Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.
~ Winston Churchill ~


...Rich Wagner


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Manjula_23s
Member


Reged: 07/04/07
Posts: 74
Loc: Karnataka,India
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: Rich W.]
      #404499 - 08/07/07 04:12 AM

Hi Rich W.
See will come across this after testing right?
I hope this forum is active
Much more practical situtations are expected

--------------------
Manjula


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Tarun_Bansal
Member


Reged: 07/16/07
Posts: 52
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: Manjula_23s]
      #404512 - 08/07/07 04:30 AM

Sometimes a system is released to UAT without running a regression test cycle after completion of integration testing. So the defects that were introduced while fixing the defects raised in integration are also delivered.

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Yury
Advanced Member


Reged: 12/31/99
Posts: 649
Loc: Toronto
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: Manjula_23s]
      #404524 - 08/07/07 04:50 AM

Quote:

We do Testing, Verification and RTM, After doing all these also customer will report bugs. What may be the cause for it?


These questions are for you:
1) Have you analyzed bugs reported by a customer?
2) Do you understand why they were not reported by a test team?

BTW, what is "RTM"?


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GoogleMonster
Member


Reged: 01/17/07
Posts: 170
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: Yury]
      #405356 - 08/08/07 05:47 PM

Real Time Monitoring (post-implementation) perhaps?

--------------------
You're not paranoid if they really are out to get you.


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KBMu
Member


Reged: 11/22/06
Posts: 59
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: GoogleMonster]
      #405376 - 08/08/07 09:39 PM


RTM is Requirement Traceability Matrix.

And If application is an online portal, we cant predict what the end user's configuration as well. Bugs even after our test is mainly because of Configuration/Environment/Rare Scenarios.

Thanks
KBM


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bigbobsanders
Junior Member


Reged: 11/08/02
Posts: 8
Loc: Columbus, OH, USA
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: Tarun_Bansal]
      #405662 - 08/09/07 08:28 AM

And if your requirements are subject to interpretation by either developers or testers, 9 out of 10 times the interpretation will be wrong.

Poor requirements equals idiotic software.

--------------------
Bob who used to be an honest tester


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rtehve
Super Member


Reged: 08/21/00
Posts: 1437
Loc: Elanora Heights, NSW, Australi...
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: bigbobsanders]
      #406245 - 08/12/07 05:42 PM

Reality about testing is that it is at best 70-80% effective. There are many reasons people see defects in a released product.

1) Different endless list of configurations (not all get tested) (OS's, Drivers, configs etc....)
2) Sociability testing - how other apps interact with your software can be a big unknown, especially if we are talking about apps that you never heard of.
3) Commercial reality - Even things you are aware of you take a commercial risk as the representative list of customers is too small.
4) Things just plain get missed or were not considered un-important during the planning phase (we are human)
5) Often companies take an aggressive approach to market penetration with early releases (MS are classic at this) with products often requiring 2-3 service packs before they are even stable..... anyone remember NT SP6 (weeks later NT SP6a)
6) Ineptitude - many organisations just have no idea how to test a product !

I could go on and on, but in summary do not assume testing is a) absolute b) perfect !

--------------------
Robert Tehve
rtehve@bigpond.com


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Pranjul
Newbie


Reged: 06/25/07
Posts: 11
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: rtehve]
      #406590 - 08/14/07 12:07 AM

I would like to share my experience here.
Experience 1: One of my tested product was installed on client site. For first 8 months it worked absolutely fine. But eventually customer faced problem. When he started the day, the data didn't replicate but after 1 hr from start of day, the data again replicated very smoothly. And this was not happened at testing environment even we restore their database too. Then our team went their and found that when he started the day, some script executed which cause that error.

Experience 2: Our application was working very fine on testing enevironment. But when the application installed on clinet site from the first day, we faced client complain. That issue was not simulate on our envirnment. So, we restore the Client Database on our environment. When we debuged the problem, we came to know that his previous customization (done by third party) changed the behaviour of application.

Experience 3: The release product was not possible to install at the client site. When we take the control of machine from customer, we found that the database setting was not according to release requirement. His database was in Case-Sensitive mode and we recommond Case-Insensitive mode. So we modified the script accordingly.

I can say that even we release the product/software with testing and requirement needed or release note, some issue always arises at the client site as either of their system configuration or hardware issue or previous application installed. So, not to worry about this:).

--------------------
Thanks and Regards,
Pranjul Srivastava - QA
Ambition is the germ from which all growth of nobleness proceeds.......


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drazle
Active Member


Reged: 11/30/00
Posts: 829
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: Pranjul]
      #406674 - 08/14/07 05:25 AM

Quote:

Ambition is the germ from which all growth of nobleness proceeds.




Pranjul, what is the source of this quote?

I'd have to disagree - nobleness as I understand it does not require ambition to grow. And more often than not, ambition does not lead to the growth of nobleness.

From Merriam-Webster: Ambition = an ardent desire for rank, fame, or power.

Perhaps something was lost in translation...


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wynnro
Junior Member


Reged: 08/08/05
Posts: 49
Loc: Kingsport Tennessee
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: Pranjul]
      #406706 - 08/14/07 06:44 AM

Quote:


I can say that even we release the product/software with testing and requirement needed or release note, some issue always arises at the client site as either of their system configuration or hardware issue or previous application installed. So, not to worry about this:).




Oops My intent as a professional is to release 'bug free' software. The statement at "some issue always arises" just does not cut the mustard.

Failure on the part of the QA department to find these issues are worried about, and many times money changes hands for this kind of issue.

Makes it something to worry about do you not think?


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alexxusz1980
Member


Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 226
Loc: Europe
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: wynnro]
      #406791 - 08/14/07 11:22 AM

i agree to your point wynnro

on the other hand, read my signature: nobody's perfect. And time is tight, very...

In a budget restricted and risk management bound organization which basically provides QA as a service to internal business units rather then external customers, it can always happen that low priority rated scenarios were strapped from execution due to time constraints and that they thus end up in production.

point taken that this scenario should not happen for software which is sold to customers...

--------------------
Nobody's perfect.


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Walen
Super Member


Reged: 05/09/01
Posts: 1254
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: drazle]
      #406801 - 08/14/07 11:41 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Ambition is the germ from which all growth of nobleness proceeds.




Pranjul, what is the source of this quote?




Oscar Wilde... I prefer some of his others, for example,

"Work is the curse of the drinking classes."

--------------------
P. Walen

My Blog: http://rhythmoftesting.blogspot.com/


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alexxusz1980
Member


Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 226
Loc: Europe
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: Walen]
      #406838 - 08/14/07 01:31 PM

*giggle*
nice one, walen...

--------------------
Nobody's perfect.


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JakeBrake
Moderator


Reged: 12/19/00
Posts: 15290
Loc: St. Louis - Year 2025
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: alexxusz1980]
      #406839 - 08/14/07 01:33 PM

The drinking classes are known to curse when faced with having to work.

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MArk B.
Advanced Member


Reged: 10/04/02
Posts: 509
Loc: Federal Way, WA
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: JakeBrake]
      #406868 - 08/14/07 04:41 PM

I often drink and curse. I try not to do both at work.

At the same time anyway. :-)

MArk B.


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drazle
Active Member


Reged: 11/30/00
Posts: 829
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: Walen]
      #406957 - 08/15/07 05:50 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Ambition is the germ from which all growth of nobleness proceeds.




Pranjul, what is the source of this quote?




Oscar Wilde...




Oh! That explains it then.

--------------------
A problem is a difference between what is perceived and what is desired, that
we want to reduce
(Dewey 1933)


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Joe Strazzere
Moderator


Reged: 05/15/00
Posts: 12344
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: Manjula_23s]
      #406964 - 08/15/07 06:09 AM

Quote:

We do Testing,Verification and RTM ,After doing all these also customer will report bugs.
What may be the cause for it?




Some developers are better at creating bugs than the testers are at finding them.

--------------------
- Joe
Visit AllThingsQuality.com to learn more about quality, testing, and QA!

I speak only for me. I do not speak for my employer, nor for anyone else.


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johnny_tester
Member


Reged: 12/26/06
Posts: 55
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: wynnro]
      #410864 - 08/28/07 06:58 AM

Quote:




Oops My intent as a professional is to release 'bug free' software. The statement at "some issue always arises" just does not cut the mustard.

Failure on the part of the QA department to find these issues are worried about, and many times money changes hands for this kind of issue.

Makes it something to worry about do you not think?




I dont think so.
No one can guarantee for a "Bug free" software
In above mentioned posts many situatons covered still there are so many situations that we can not predict and so cannot cover.

As a professional,We will try to cover all the bugs in the application.

--------------------
-------
Regards,
Johnny


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blueinatlModerator
Active Member


Reged: 10/20/06
Posts: 756
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Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: johnny_tester]
      #410869 - 08/28/07 07:18 AM

Quote:


I dont think so.
No one can guarantee for a "Bug free" software
In above mentioned posts many situatons covered still there are so many situations that we can not predict and so cannot cover.

As a professional,We will try to cover all the bugs in the application.




You should strive for is what he said, not that he guarantees Bug Free software. I think the point of granting yourself the excuse that there is no such thing as "bug free" gives some folks the excuse not to strive for it.


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James Pulley
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Reged: 08/01/01
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Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: johnny_tester]
      #410874 - 08/28/07 07:26 AM

Customers are like two-year olds. They will do things with software that were never intended by the producer and never tested for at any level. Spend any amount of time in product support and you will get a very clear picture of this situation. And, as noted earlier in this thread, it often comes down to a core difference between test and customer environments.

Here are some really good examples from my product support days at Microsoft a good decade-and-a-half ago.
  • OS installed on unsupported\untested hardware. All bets are off for predictability for OS or apps in this case.
  • Third party software related to core kernal activities has been installed, governing security, network, memory management, etc...
  • "Well hello, Mr <Virus|Trojan|Spambot|...>. Fancy finding you hanging around here..."
  • Improper credentials for the user for the activity they are engaged in.
  • Application installed on an unsupported|untested OS revision, "I just copied Solitaire from my Windows box to my Macintosh and it doesn't work on my Mac. I think this program is buggy...."
  • EEBSAK. Error Exists Between Seat and Keyboard, "What do you mean that this bass-o-matic software will not interface with my margarita machine?" Software manuals are not just for bedtime reading when you can't sleep.
  • Botched install, "Oh, I need to reboot?"
  • Pirated|Cracked software. Software integrity has been compromised.
  • Bad Media (vast minority of the time)


Get a good install on a supported OS configuration with the right user credentials and the tool related issues tend to go away real fast. The EEBSAK issues, well, those are much more difficult to address and then you start running afoul of corporate cultures on training versus throwing someone into the fire.


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AOQA
Active Member


Reged: 04/12/07
Posts: 1044
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: James Pulley]
      #410886 - 08/28/07 07:59 AM

Several of those things you mention, though, are things that could be anticipated and handled by the program gracefully instead of just bombing, which is what I would a consider a defect.

For example, in my old support role we had a tool that could go through and verify that the user had appropriate privileges to install our application in their environment. I lobbied for years to get them to include that piece in the installer but they wouldn't/couldn't do it (some Installshield limitation), so instead the user was just presented with an installshield error (e.g. Error 1607). The developers did not consider this to be a defect, but I did and do.


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Joe Strazzere
Moderator


Reged: 05/15/00
Posts: 12344
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Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: AOQA]
      #410917 - 08/28/07 09:27 AM

Quote:

For example, in my old support role we had a tool that could go through and verify that the user had appropriate privileges to install our application in their environment. I lobbied for years to get them to include that piece in the installer but they wouldn't/couldn't do it (some Installshield limitation), so instead the user was just presented with an installshield error (e.g. Error 1607). The developers did not consider this to be a defect, but I did and do.




Often, this is an economic question, rather than a "bug/not a bug" question.

How much additional time/money should a company invest in preventing this sort of problem (rather than handling it in a support call)?

There's no generic answer here. Sometimes, it makes sense to prevent the error. Other times, it makes sense to deal with it when/if it occurs.

--------------------
- Joe
Visit AllThingsQuality.com to learn more about quality, testing, and QA!

I speak only for me. I do not speak for my employer, nor for anyone else.


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AOQA
Active Member


Reged: 04/12/07
Posts: 1044
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: Joe Strazzere]
      #410922 - 08/28/07 09:42 AM

Quote:



Often, this is an economic question, rather than a "bug/not a bug" question.

How much additional time/money should a company invest in preventing this sort of problem (rather than handling it in a support call)?

There's no generic answer here. Sometimes, it makes sense to prevent the error. Other times, it makes sense to deal with it when/if it occurs.




I suppose that's true. I think that's why at times I was asked to provide reports of how often certain errors were coming up on support tickets, to see if the cost of supporting an issue was exceeding how much it cost to prevent it.

I think the reasoning behind *not* fixing it had more to do with development priorities (they need to spend more time on making new products than improving existing ones), though. When we have a release of that particular piece of software, I'd guess that at least 20% of the people that receive it can't install it without a support call. The call center can easily handle the volume, so that's not a problem, but I can't help but wonder what effects it has on our customers' impressions of the company when every release has install problems (which almost always ends up being a permissions issue on the customer side).

It's kind of ironic when you think about it: the support area gets more attention and budget if call volumes are high, and they're also in charge of UAT... if they sign off on a defect-heavy product then call volumes rise and they look better.


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Joe Strazzere
Moderator


Reged: 05/15/00
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Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: AOQA]
      #410943 - 08/28/07 10:30 AM

Quote:

I think the reasoning behind *not* fixing it had more to do with development priorities (they need to spend more time on making new products than improving existing ones), though.




That is an economic decision.

--------------------
- Joe
Visit AllThingsQuality.com to learn more about quality, testing, and QA!

I speak only for me. I do not speak for my employer, nor for anyone else.


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Pune
Member


Reged: 05/07/07
Posts: 37
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: alexxusz1980]
      #411208 - 08/29/07 05:25 AM

We should try to always use methods for
Test coverage
Code coverage

Regards,
Javed

Edited by Pune (08/29/07 05:29 AM)


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JakeBrake
Moderator


Reged: 12/19/00
Posts: 15290
Loc: St. Louis - Year 2025
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: Manjula_23s]
      #411232 - 08/29/07 05:54 AM

Products have bugs because humans develop products. Be thankful that humans develop products with bugs because this reality creates jobs for people like you and me.

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TestingClass
Newbie


Reged: 08/28/12
Posts: 7
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: rtehve]
      #719300 - 11/05/12 08:51 AM

Lets see what all reasons of introduction of Defects/Bugs in the code:

Miscommunication of requirements introduces error in code
Unrealistic time schedule for development
Lack of designing experience
Lack of coding practices experience
Human factors introduces errors in code
Lack of version control
Buggy third-party tools
Last minute changes in the requirement introduce error
Poor Software testing skill

--------------------
-Software Testing Class
www.softwaretestingclass.com


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Joe Strazzere
Moderator


Reged: 05/15/00
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Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: TestingClass]
      #719309 - 11/05/12 09:54 AM

Quote:

Lets see what all reasons of introduction of Defects/Bugs in the code



Defect/Bugs can sometimes be introduced when it takes over 5 years to respond to Requirements.

I'm just sayin...

--------------------
- Joe
Visit AllThingsQuality.com to learn more about quality, testing, and QA!

I speak only for me. I do not speak for my employer, nor for anyone else.


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