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Walen
Super Member


Reged: 05/09/01
Posts: 1254
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: drazle]
      #406801 - 08/14/07 11:41 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Ambition is the germ from which all growth of nobleness proceeds.




Pranjul, what is the source of this quote?




Oscar Wilde... I prefer some of his others, for example,

"Work is the curse of the drinking classes."

--------------------
P. Walen

My Blog: http://rhythmoftesting.blogspot.com/


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alexxusz1980
Member


Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 226
Loc: Europe
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: Walen]
      #406838 - 08/14/07 01:31 PM

*giggle*
nice one, walen...

--------------------
Nobody's perfect.


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JakeBrake
Moderator


Reged: 12/19/00
Posts: 15290
Loc: St. Louis - Year 2025
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: alexxusz1980]
      #406839 - 08/14/07 01:33 PM

The drinking classes are known to curse when faced with having to work.

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MArk B.
Advanced Member


Reged: 10/04/02
Posts: 509
Loc: Federal Way, WA
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: JakeBrake]
      #406868 - 08/14/07 04:41 PM

I often drink and curse. I try not to do both at work.

At the same time anyway. :-)

MArk B.


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drazle
Active Member


Reged: 11/30/00
Posts: 829
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: Walen]
      #406957 - 08/15/07 05:50 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Ambition is the germ from which all growth of nobleness proceeds.




Pranjul, what is the source of this quote?




Oscar Wilde...




Oh! That explains it then.

--------------------
A problem is a difference between what is perceived and what is desired, that
we want to reduce
(Dewey 1933)


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Joe Strazzere
Moderator


Reged: 05/15/00
Posts: 12344
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: Manjula_23s]
      #406964 - 08/15/07 06:09 AM

Quote:

We do Testing,Verification and RTM ,After doing all these also customer will report bugs.
What may be the cause for it?




Some developers are better at creating bugs than the testers are at finding them.

--------------------
- Joe
Visit AllThingsQuality.com to learn more about quality, testing, and QA!

I speak only for me. I do not speak for my employer, nor for anyone else.


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johnny_tester
Member


Reged: 12/26/06
Posts: 55
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: wynnro]
      #410864 - 08/28/07 06:58 AM

Quote:




Oops My intent as a professional is to release 'bug free' software. The statement at "some issue always arises" just does not cut the mustard.

Failure on the part of the QA department to find these issues are worried about, and many times money changes hands for this kind of issue.

Makes it something to worry about do you not think?




I dont think so.
No one can guarantee for a "Bug free" software
In above mentioned posts many situatons covered still there are so many situations that we can not predict and so cannot cover.

As a professional,We will try to cover all the bugs in the application.

--------------------
-------
Regards,
Johnny


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blueinatlModerator
Active Member


Reged: 10/20/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: johnny_tester]
      #410869 - 08/28/07 07:18 AM

Quote:


I dont think so.
No one can guarantee for a "Bug free" software
In above mentioned posts many situatons covered still there are so many situations that we can not predict and so cannot cover.

As a professional,We will try to cover all the bugs in the application.




You should strive for is what he said, not that he guarantees Bug Free software. I think the point of granting yourself the excuse that there is no such thing as "bug free" gives some folks the excuse not to strive for it.


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James Pulley
Moderator


Reged: 08/01/01
Posts: 5551
Loc: NC
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: johnny_tester]
      #410874 - 08/28/07 07:26 AM

Customers are like two-year olds. They will do things with software that were never intended by the producer and never tested for at any level. Spend any amount of time in product support and you will get a very clear picture of this situation. And, as noted earlier in this thread, it often comes down to a core difference between test and customer environments.

Here are some really good examples from my product support days at Microsoft a good decade-and-a-half ago.
  • OS installed on unsupported\untested hardware. All bets are off for predictability for OS or apps in this case.
  • Third party software related to core kernal activities has been installed, governing security, network, memory management, etc...
  • "Well hello, Mr <Virus|Trojan|Spambot|...>. Fancy finding you hanging around here..."
  • Improper credentials for the user for the activity they are engaged in.
  • Application installed on an unsupported|untested OS revision, "I just copied Solitaire from my Windows box to my Macintosh and it doesn't work on my Mac. I think this program is buggy...."
  • EEBSAK. Error Exists Between Seat and Keyboard, "What do you mean that this bass-o-matic software will not interface with my margarita machine?" Software manuals are not just for bedtime reading when you can't sleep.
  • Botched install, "Oh, I need to reboot?"
  • Pirated|Cracked software. Software integrity has been compromised.
  • Bad Media (vast minority of the time)


Get a good install on a supported OS configuration with the right user credentials and the tool related issues tend to go away real fast. The EEBSAK issues, well, those are much more difficult to address and then you start running afoul of corporate cultures on training versus throwing someone into the fire.


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AOQA
Active Member


Reged: 04/12/07
Posts: 1044
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: James Pulley]
      #410886 - 08/28/07 07:59 AM

Several of those things you mention, though, are things that could be anticipated and handled by the program gracefully instead of just bombing, which is what I would a consider a defect.

For example, in my old support role we had a tool that could go through and verify that the user had appropriate privileges to install our application in their environment. I lobbied for years to get them to include that piece in the installer but they wouldn't/couldn't do it (some Installshield limitation), so instead the user was just presented with an installshield error (e.g. Error 1607). The developers did not consider this to be a defect, but I did and do.


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Joe Strazzere
Moderator


Reged: 05/15/00
Posts: 12344
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: AOQA]
      #410917 - 08/28/07 09:27 AM

Quote:

For example, in my old support role we had a tool that could go through and verify that the user had appropriate privileges to install our application in their environment. I lobbied for years to get them to include that piece in the installer but they wouldn't/couldn't do it (some Installshield limitation), so instead the user was just presented with an installshield error (e.g. Error 1607). The developers did not consider this to be a defect, but I did and do.




Often, this is an economic question, rather than a "bug/not a bug" question.

How much additional time/money should a company invest in preventing this sort of problem (rather than handling it in a support call)?

There's no generic answer here. Sometimes, it makes sense to prevent the error. Other times, it makes sense to deal with it when/if it occurs.

--------------------
- Joe
Visit AllThingsQuality.com to learn more about quality, testing, and QA!

I speak only for me. I do not speak for my employer, nor for anyone else.


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AOQA
Active Member


Reged: 04/12/07
Posts: 1044
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: Joe Strazzere]
      #410922 - 08/28/07 09:42 AM

Quote:



Often, this is an economic question, rather than a "bug/not a bug" question.

How much additional time/money should a company invest in preventing this sort of problem (rather than handling it in a support call)?

There's no generic answer here. Sometimes, it makes sense to prevent the error. Other times, it makes sense to deal with it when/if it occurs.




I suppose that's true. I think that's why at times I was asked to provide reports of how often certain errors were coming up on support tickets, to see if the cost of supporting an issue was exceeding how much it cost to prevent it.

I think the reasoning behind *not* fixing it had more to do with development priorities (they need to spend more time on making new products than improving existing ones), though. When we have a release of that particular piece of software, I'd guess that at least 20% of the people that receive it can't install it without a support call. The call center can easily handle the volume, so that's not a problem, but I can't help but wonder what effects it has on our customers' impressions of the company when every release has install problems (which almost always ends up being a permissions issue on the customer side).

It's kind of ironic when you think about it: the support area gets more attention and budget if call volumes are high, and they're also in charge of UAT... if they sign off on a defect-heavy product then call volumes rise and they look better.


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Joe Strazzere
Moderator


Reged: 05/15/00
Posts: 12344
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: AOQA]
      #410943 - 08/28/07 10:30 AM

Quote:

I think the reasoning behind *not* fixing it had more to do with development priorities (they need to spend more time on making new products than improving existing ones), though.




That is an economic decision.

--------------------
- Joe
Visit AllThingsQuality.com to learn more about quality, testing, and QA!

I speak only for me. I do not speak for my employer, nor for anyone else.


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Pune
Member


Reged: 05/07/07
Posts: 37
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: alexxusz1980]
      #411208 - 08/29/07 05:25 AM

We should try to always use methods for
Test coverage
Code coverage

Regards,
Javed

Edited by Pune (08/29/07 05:29 AM)


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JakeBrake
Moderator


Reged: 12/19/00
Posts: 15290
Loc: St. Louis - Year 2025
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: Manjula_23s]
      #411232 - 08/29/07 05:54 AM

Products have bugs because humans develop products. Be thankful that humans develop products with bugs because this reality creates jobs for people like you and me.

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TestingClass
Newbie


Reged: 08/28/12
Posts: 7
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: rtehve]
      #719300 - 11/05/12 08:51 AM

Lets see what all reasons of introduction of Defects/Bugs in the code:

Miscommunication of requirements introduces error in code
Unrealistic time schedule for development
Lack of designing experience
Lack of coding practices experience
Human factors introduces errors in code
Lack of version control
Buggy third-party tools
Last minute changes in the requirement introduce error
Poor Software testing skill

--------------------
-Software Testing Class
www.softwaretestingclass.com


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Joe Strazzere
Moderator


Reged: 05/15/00
Posts: 12344
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Re: Why Product have Bugs [Re: TestingClass]
      #719309 - 11/05/12 09:54 AM

Quote:

Lets see what all reasons of introduction of Defects/Bugs in the code



Defect/Bugs can sometimes be introduced when it takes over 5 years to respond to Requirements.

I'm just sayin...

--------------------
- Joe
Visit AllThingsQuality.com to learn more about quality, testing, and QA!

I speak only for me. I do not speak for my employer, nor for anyone else.


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