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  1. #1
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    Establishing a baseline

    Although I am too painfully aware that there is little QA and a definite lack of testing where I work I think I need to establish just how bad things are before I go making suggestions on how to improve matters - ya gotta know where you are before you start giving out directions

    I was going to survey the programmers to find out
    - what programs they are responsible for
    - who is responsible for testing them
    - how they receive the results of any testing
    - how happy are they with the testing their programs get
    - whether they run a smoke test before delivering a program to be tested
    - any comments

    and the 'testers' ( aka support staff or anyone standing around looking idle ) will also get their own survey
    - what training ( if any ) in testing they have
    - how do they perform their testing
    - how do they record the testing results
    - do they time how long they take testing
    - are they given enough information to test the program
    - any comments

    Any comments/suggestions welcome

  2. #2
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    Re: Establishing a baseline

    heh, "how happy are they (developers) with the testing their programs get"... some of them are happy when they got none, cause it mean no bugs...

    few more questions are too abstract, try to understand what answers do you expect? On my experience they could be unhappy with either of: too much defects reported (either insignificant or those that are subjective); too late reported defects; too little defects detected by testers compared to what they receive from customers; too much questions and misunderstandings by testers; too much wrong reported defects; etc...
    ?:the art of a constructive conflict perceived as a destructive diagnose.
    Ainars

  3. #3
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    Re: Establishing a baseline

    Originally posted by Ainars:
    heh, "how happy are they (developers) with the testing their programs get"... some of them are happy when they got none, cause it mean no bugs...
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">laugh - that's a good one, wonder if I will get a reply like that.

    But as well as the results from the survey ( I think I know what the answers will be and they wont make pretty reading ) I'm also using it as a way to get testing talked about and it's profile raised

    and I'm hoping an open-ended 'comments' question might generate some interesting responses though it's more likely to be left blank or filled in with a 'funny'

  4. #4
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    Re: Establishing a baseline

    Originally posted by Ainars:
    heh, "how happy are they (developers) with the testing their programs get"... some of them are happy when they got none, cause it mean no bugs...
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">yeah, my director, who hired me, said a similar thing. he is not sure whether he wants me to find bugs or not because no bugs would mean he had great developers working for him. but if i don't find bugs then that doesn't mean there aren't any. i think it is one of those grey areas...

    chris
    Sometimes there's a buggy. How many drivers does a buggy have? So let's just say that I'm driving this buggy, and if you fix your attitude, you can ride along with me. -The Cowboy, Mulholland Drive

    http://www.sqablogs.com/metalbaby/

  5. #5
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    Re: Establishing a baseline

    Originally posted by philk10:

    I think I know what the answers will be and they wont make pretty reading
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">If the goal of survey is to prove your idea instead of learn something, then questions does not matter... sorry if this seems an offensive comment

    Originally posted by philk10:

    I'm also using it as a way to get testing talked about and it's profile raised
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Hmm, that's what I do right now. I've run a survey with PM to answer the single question "how happy are they with the testing service their projects receive" and that was one hour long conversation with each of them gaining a lot of useful information.
    Could you please define what does "profile" and it's raising means (sorry, I'm not native english speaker) - do you mean "increase role of testing on the project"? If you do and if it is what I suppose I will share some results of my survey here [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
    ?:the art of a constructive conflict perceived as a destructive diagnose.
    Ainars

  6. #6
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    Re: Establishing a baseline

    thanks for the reply - and no offence taken !

    I 'know' that the results will be that no testing is done for about 70% of the projects
    I want to know if the programmers know who is supposed to be responsible for any testing of the program - I have a fairly good idea but want to know if the programmers do

    I know that the test results are fed back in a wide variety of ways - but having this on paper means it's easier for me to make a case to management to implement some proper process

    yes - by increasing the profile I mean "increase role of testing on the project" - not hard when it usually has a zero role and only comes into play right at the very end

    getting everyone 'test infected' is my goal

    would love to hear the results of your survey !

  7. #7
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    Re: Establishing a baseline

    I'm preparing conference materials with topic "Is tester's role appreciated enough". I will blog (at testingreflections) it once I have it ready. Meanwhile I could tell you that part of it was the survey I mentioned. A list of different issues was pointed out by different PMs, 7 out of 10 top issues is either resolved or never experienced in at least 2 of other projects. The activities undertaken to fixed or escape issue was different, but in general they could be described as whole project team (PM; developer and testers) involved in all activities (requirements, design, development, testing). In particular it means PM/developers could influence test planning/scope while testers could influence product scope/dev. prioritizing/arch. details/etc.
    ?:the art of a constructive conflict perceived as a destructive diagnose.
    Ainars

  8. #8
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    Re: Establishing a baseline

    Ainars -

    as an aside (hopefully it will not class as a hijack)

    Which conference are you prepping for? The last one I saw you at was ICSTest in Dusseldorf in 2005 - are you talking somewhere else in Europe soon that I can catch you?
    ------
    Regards,
    Neill McCarthy
    Agile Testers of the World UNIT!

    For more contextual Musings visit http://www.testingreflections.com/ and now at http://www.sqablogs.com/neillmccarthy/
    ---

  9. #9
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    Re: Establishing a baseline

    My suggestion is that you take your assessment a few steps further. You'll know what the developers think, and you'll know what the QA/QC people think.

    But what does your company actually WANT? I'd ask both groups what they think works well, what they think works poorly, and what they would like to see from a testing group.

    Then I'd ask the managers the same thing. I would also make no assumptions in advance. If you can do this objectively, some interesting patterns will probably emerge - some of which you might not expect....

    - Linda

  10. #10
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    Re: Establishing a baseline

    I agree with Linda, this is why I told about my survey - my goal was to understand issues which are solved and are learning opportunity. The lessons learned include testing profile rising, which I'm proud of. If profile rising is your guess for solving known issues ... you will only be one more moaning tester...

    Neill - this is Latvia local even yet. I have submitted to EuroStar 2006, waiting for answer in May, will try to get to ICSTEST on 2007 if EuroStar answer will be negative.
    ?:the art of a constructive conflict perceived as a destructive diagnose.
    Ainars

 

 
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