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  1. #1
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    Brian Marick\'s XP/Agile Universe trip report

    Hi Jean,
    Per your request in the "Rise and (Fall?) of GUI Automation Tools" discussion, here is Brian's entire report. I am posting it as a separate topic, as not to dilute the discussion of the two topics.

    Brian also posted this to the agile-testing newsgroup, so I hope he doesn't mind me posting his report in its entirety here, also.

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Brian's Report:

    Subj: XP/Agile Universe trip report
    Date: 8/14/02 10:25:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time
    From: marick@testing.com (Brian Marick)
    Sender: owner-swtest-discuss@cigital.com
    To: swtest-discuss@cigital.com

    XP / Agile Universe was held August 4-7 in Chicago, Illinois, USA. It
    was an outstanding conference for testers. I venture to say it's the
    start of a beautiful relationship. Here's my trip report. Other people
    on this list were there. I hope they chime in.

    The week began with a workshop organized by Bret Pettichord and me. It
    followed roughly the format of Cem Kaner's, Brian Lawrence's, and
    Elisabeth Hendrickson's LAWST workshops <http://www.kaner.com/lawst.htm>,
    in that it was organized around people telling stories of things
    they'd done, with the audience asking both clarifying and more probing
    questions. The group, which included James Bach, Ward Cunningham, Lisa
    Crispin, Janet Gregory, Martin Fowler (later), and about ten others,
    was quite friendly and productive. Most people worked on XP
    projects. There was no one there from the other named agile methods
    (Scrum, DSDM, etc.). There were both people who thought of themselves
    as testers and also those who identified themselves as programmers. We
    had no people from the XP Customer role.

    Bret and I will be writing up a complete workshop report. Here's what
    sticks in my mind, perhaps skewed by my biases:

    - The testers seemed to be happier than most, felt more
    appreciated. There's more interaction and collaboration between
    programmers and testers than in conventional projects.

    - Despite an emphasis on automated tests, *no one* used commercial GUI
    tools (for capture/replay, scripted tests, or data driven
    tests). There were three overlapping strategies mentioned:

    1) Build the system such that a thin GUI talks to the "guts". Use
    data-driven testing (typically tabular format) to drive the
    2) Same as (1), but write the tests in a programming language (Ruby,
    3) Like (2), but with the addition that the GUI is also tested
    "from within" by posting events to the event queue and querying
    GUI state. The interesting twist here is the same test can both
    drive the GUI (as an external GUI tool could) and also poke at
    the guts.

    Note that all these strategies work because the programmers are
    willing to add testability support to the product.

    In the conference, four people told me they were willing to (or
    about to) release their product testing frameworks as open source
    code. (Three of them were strategy 3, one strategy 1.)

    - There is strong interest in writing product tests first and using
    them to guide development. (I've started to call these "coaching
    tests".) I venture to say that's considered ideal, but that people
    are struggling with making it work. (The biggest problem seems to be
    getting the tests ready fast enough.)

    - There was a lot of interest in James Bach's (and others') notions of
    manual exploratory testing. Ward Cunningham, in particular, seemed
    quite taken with James's ideas. Because of Ward's well-deserved
    reputation in the XP world, I consider this a wonderful
    sign. There's much work to be done, but I feel now that it'll be
    easier to get permission to be (partly) non-automated.

    Because the workshop was only one day, we didn't have time to hammer
    out a sweeping consensus statement. We did reach consensus on four

    - Agile methods enable us to use tests as specification by example.
    (Editorial comment: "Specification by example" is Martin Fowler's
    phrase. I think it's a particularly good one. It says to me that you
    don't need 'totalizing' specifications that tell what the program
    must do for all inputs. Instead, you give the programmers concrete
    examples - tests - and trust that they, assisted by conversation,
    will be able to generalize.)

    - Documented acceptance tests are a useful subset of the value a
    tester can add to a project. (Editorial comment: This implies that
    manual exploratory tests are another one.)

    - XP-style acceptance testing is intended to measure progress.
    (Editorial comment: You achieve a steady, sustainable pace of
    development by passing ever more tests.)

    - "Agile acceptance testing" is acceptance testing on an agile
    project, for purposes of this discussion. (Editorial comment: huh?
    This was probably the outgrowth of discussions about how "acceptance
    testing" isn't such a good name. We adopted it for the name of the
    workshop because it's in common use on XP projects.)

    The next day, Martin Fowler (conference chair of the Agile Universe
    half) devoted some words of his keynote to testing. He said that he'd
    been happy to discover a school of testing (the context-driven school)
    that's nicely compatible with agile methods, named some leaders of the
    school (James, Bret, Cem Kaner, me), said that two of us were still at
    the conference (James had left), and said that he hoped this was the
    start of a lot of cross-fertilization. This, to me, was another "we're
    in!" moment.

    Much discussion of testing happened throughout the conference,
    including confirmations of the workshop points. A couple of
    miscellaneous additional notes:

    - Non-testers at the conference like to talk about testing
    *activities* but are less comfortable with a separate testing
    *role*. Testers, I think, tend to resist that attitude, fearing the
    consequences of a loss of independence. I think those consequences
    are real, but I'm now more inclined to explore alternatives.

    - Martin Fowler points out that the traditional analyst role also
    feels out of place on agile projects. How can analysis and testing
    be merged into one activity, specification by example?

    Kay Johansen convened an Open Space (think Birds-of-a-Feather) session
    on Agile Testing Techniques. Their notes:

    They voted on top three points. They were:
    # Incorporate your test team into the entire team
    # Start testing on day one
    # Take the time and effort to build a relationship of understanding
    between testers and developers (and by extension, with all on the
    project team)
    (Notice how none of these are "techniques" in the sense of
    "cause-effect graphing".)

    (For more on Open Space: <http://www.xpuniverse.com/openSpace>.)

    Bret convened an Open Space on the role of a tester in an agile
    Some things that caught my attention:

    - the focus seems to be shifting from "finding bugs" to "providing
    information". A nice phrase: "[the goal of the tests is to] ensure
    that the current health of the product is known at any time." (This
    focus shift is not new in some parts of the testing world.)

    - Here (and throughout the conference) there's an emphasis on tests
    that are understandable by a customer (though not necessarily
    written *by* the customer). More generally, think of automated tests
    as text to be read and talked about - by testers, by programmers, by
    customers. In this way, tests participate in the desire to make
    communication permeate agile projects (see Kent Beck's notion that
    code is about communication with programmers [_Smalltalk Best
    Practice Patterns_]).

    - Testers can help the customer in the difficult job of representing
    the interests of multiple parties.

    I convened an Open Space session on taking advantage of the momentum
    we'd achieved at this conference:

    I won't summarize that, but I'll make three points:
    - There's a lot of interest. We people-who-do-testing should go to
    agile conferences. There are programmers and methodologists who want
    to talk with us.
    - We should go in an organized way. It was good that Bret and I had
    the workshop. The Open Space gave us a way to get people talking
    that doesn't happen if you just rely on blundering into people with
    similar interests.
    - The people at this conference are big on hands-on experience. For
    example, XP Fest <http://www.xpuniverse.com/schedule/XPFest>, is a
    miniature XP project, with a customer, people programming in pairs,
    etc. Next conference, we should do both automated coaching tests and
    manual exploratory tests at the XP Fest. And bring your laptop with
    sample tests to show people. They will be interested in looking.

    "Act always so as to increase the number of choices." -- Heinz von Foerster

    Brian Marick, marick@testing.com www.testing.com - Software testing services and resources www.testingcraft.com - Where software testers exchange techniques www.visibleworkings.com - Adequate understanding of system internals


  2. #2
    Senior Member
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    Minneapolis, MN
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    Re: Brian Marick\'s XP/Agile Universe trip report

    Thank you! My favorite part is;
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>The testers seemed to be happier than most, felt more appreciated. There's more interaction and collaboration between
    programmers and testers than in conventional projects.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Very interesting article, I don't fully understand the third of the overlapping strategy yet, but I'll figure it out.

    Jean James, CSTE
    J.James Consulting, Inc.
    "I deliver what I promise, and I only promise what I can deliver."
    Jean James
    I deliver what I promise, and I only promise what I can deliver.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Zwolle, The Netherlands
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    Re: Brian Marick\'s XP/Agile Universe trip report

    What I would like to know if we -testers, qa people- agree with Bret&Brian. Any experienced people on agile methodologies?

    (Sorry but I just posted Brian's piece of art on the QA_methodologies forum, and then I read this message from Elfriede. It;s crossposted now. I hope you all will forgive me. But I really think agile has more to do with QA then with automated testing...)

    XP - for eXtreme Programming, or at least agile
    Test - for being a professional tester
    NL - for Netherlands (do you actually know where that is?)
    “None of us is as smart as all of us” - Gerald Weinberg



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