SPONSORS:






User Tag List

Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    Super Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    1,769
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    The Union Hunt for More Victims - Mises Institute

    A great column from the Mises site on Unions. While all logical and true, it seems to get a bit off topic and rambles towards the end.

    The Union Hunt for More Victims - Mises Institute:
    http://amateureconblog.blogspot.com/...ims-mises.html


    A snippet from the article:
    "The truth is that unions are essentially parasitic organizations that thrive only by draining and ultimately destroying the companies and industries they control. The essential goal of the unions is to compel the payment of higher wages for the performance of less work and less productive work. Unions are notorious for their hostility to labor saving machinery and to any form of competition among workers, for featherbedding practices, indeed, for “making work” by deliberately and arbitrarily increasing the number of workers required to accomplish a given task and sometimes even by compelling the disassembly or destruction of products already produced.

    It should be no wonder that the percentage of the labor force controlled by unions tends progressively to decline. Where the unions hold sway, companies cannot compete. Their market share falls and they ultimately go bankrupt. The only way that unions can maintain any given share of the labor force is by finding new victims to replace the ones they have sucked dry. The finding of new victims, by means of new government intervention is the unstated agenda of Mr. Stern, Ms. Milkman, and The New York Times.

    The actual effects of labor unions are arbitrary inequalities in wage rates, mass unemployment, and substantially lower real wages for the average worker. Labor unions are aptly described as a leading vehicle of what von Mises called “destructionism.”

    Whenever a union succeeds in obtaining above market wage rates for its members, it also reduces the number of workers who can be employed in its field. This is because of the operation of one of the best established principles of economics: Namely, the higher the price of anything, including the wage of any kind of labor, the smaller is the quantity demanded of that good or labor service."

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    5,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: The Union Hunt for More Victims - Mises Institute

    I was involved in union negotiations when I was on the local school Board of Education. It was an eye-opening exercise.

    First, as one of the two board members present, the school's attorney laid the ground rules. No one from the board or administration could speak during the negotiations. Only he was allowed to speak. If we had a point to make, we had to write it down and pass it to him, and if he decided it was good enough, we took a break to discuss.

    We discussed salary and the teachers wanted to add more money. We suggested adding two steps to the salary scale, based on merit (i.e professional accomplishment). The immediate response from the union negotiator was (I clearly remember the quote) "If you want these negotiations to continue, you will NEVER, EVER mention the word merit again. If you do, we will walk out."

    I wanted to clarify the point, so the negotiator did. Again, I remember clearly the quote: "The union's job is NOT to ensure that the members are competent. The union's job is to maximize it's members lifetime pay and benefits. Period. Education and performance has nothing to do with it."

    I remember that one of the board members dubbed that the "Bee Gees Salary Schedule - Stayin' Alive"

    The contract that they negotiated was so restrictive, that we could not even change health care insurance carriers. They negotiated not only the level of benefits, but who could provide them too. We could have saved 2.5 million without changing benefit levels simply by changing the insurance provider, but the union prevented us from doing so. It would have voided the contract and they would have gone on strike.

    It was also interesting how they used numbers. Teacher has a base pay of "only $39,000 a year, which is much less than that enjoyed by other members of the community." But they forgot to take into account that the teachers made that amount in 9 months, had their benefits FULLY PAID by the district, including kick in to retirement and 401K. When you took that into account, the teachers were realizing about the same amount of take home income as another community member working at a "real" job for aobut $75,000 a year. When that was brought up, the union dismissed it, saying "you can't do comparisons like that. Only base salaries can be compared."

    [ 07-05-2005, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: Darrel Damon ]

  3. #3
    SQA Knight
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Elanora Heights, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    3,271
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: The Union Hunt for More Victims - Mises Institute

    Darrel Damon

    Unions are just another political party in disguise. they do a major dis-service to their members by worrying about idealogy and political power as opposed to truely caing about their memebers. Its a free world and you are entitled to join a union if you think they add value, but in Australia union membership is down to about 20% of the workforce and declining. Its a clear message is that employers and employees now both do not see unions as being useful.
    Robert Tehve
    rtehve@bigpond.com

  4. #4
    Super Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    1,769
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: The Union Hunt for More Victims - Mises Institute

    Unions help the few at the expense of the many.


    Chris

  5. #5
    SQA Knight
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Elanora Heights, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    3,271
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: The Union Hunt for More Victims - Mises Institute

    cmeisenzahl

    I view unions like I view many religions who prey on the weak and weak minded.
    Robert Tehve
    rtehve@bigpond.com

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    5,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: The Union Hunt for More Victims - Mises Institute

    There was an attempt to unionize management at one place I worked. We got an education on how the laws work for instituting a union in the US.

    The numbers may be different now, but at the time, here's how it worked. In a block of potential members, if 10% of them petitioned for union representation, then the union solicits for membership. When they sent out the solicitation, if more than 10% of the returned solititations are affirmative, the union is in.

    So, if we had 100 managers that were eligible for membership, only 10 had to petition and then we were required to make a decision. When we received the solicitation, we could either say yes, no or ignore it.

    If 10 out of the 100 returned their solicitation and 1 of them said yes, the union is in.

    The state I worked in was a "closed shop" state, meaning that if the union is in and you choose not to join, you are out of a job. I would have been required to join the union to keep my job.

  7. #7
    Super Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    1,769
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: The Union Hunt for More Victims - Mises Institute

    Originally posted by rtehve:
    cmeisenzahl

    I view unions like I view many religions who prey on the weak and weak minded.
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">I would agree to some extent. But a bogus religion would likely only harm those involved. Unions harm everyone.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    388
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: The Union Hunt for More Victims - Mises Institute

    Sometimes I wish I had the humor of Roy Rogers. I guess sometime about now he would have a witty comment about the people at this web site are complaining about working conditions and pay scales and now complaining about the people that stopped complaining and did something (joined a union.) That or he would reflect and say something funny about some employees are “uniting” to deal with the Enron’s and ilk.

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4729118

    I don’t care much for unions and will not go out of my way to join one, or avoid one. Some of the best unions I have seen are value-added by supplying an apprenticeship program and professional standards (even The Donald has an apprenticeship program).

    The real irony is companies will collude to affect employment standards and pay then pitch hate rhetoric when the employees collude to affect employment standards and pay.

    The times I have seen unions at work is when the company was “gaming” the employees. The employees hire someone to “game” right back for them. The definition of a no win situation.

    Famous phrases I nearly remember:
    “We would be better off is we if we did something with all the lawyers.”
    “Two honest people sitting down at a table, talking with each other with mutual respect, can resolve any conflict.”

    [ 07-06-2005, 09:16 AM: Message edited by: q-pul ]

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.36 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 11.54%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.6.4 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.2.8 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBNominate (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Username Changing provided by Username Change (Free) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
BetaSoft Inc.
Digital Point modules: Sphinx-based search
All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:16 PM.

Copyright BetaSoft Inc.