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  1. #1
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    International Relations

    I'm curious how those who live in countries that are supporting the war feel about those countries that:

    a) are against it
    b) have chosen to remain neutral

    The reason I mention it is two-fold:

    1) An ambassador from the US told the Canadian government that Canada's lack of support will have a direct economic impact on Canada and our relations.
    2) Some US based ebay.com vendors are refusing Canadian bids on their products.

    Regardless of government policies or your views on the war - the PEOPLE of Canada are being punished due to politics and policies.

    I don't want to debate the war - in fact, I'm asking you not to.

    Please keep your comments directly to the two examples given. I'd be interested in your opinions!

    ------------------

  2. #2
    Moderator Joe Strazzere's Avatar
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    Re: International Relations

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by digits71:
    I'm curious how those who live in countries that are supporting the war feel about those countries that:

    a) are against it
    b) have chosen to remain neutral

    The reason I mention it is two-fold:

    1) An ambassador from the US told the Canadian government that Canada's lack of support will have a direct economic impact on Canada and our relations.
    2) Some US based ebay.com vendors are refusing Canadian bids on their products.

    Regardless of government policies or your views on the war - the PEOPLE of Canada are being punished due to politics and policies.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I hold no ill will toward countries or individuals who oppose this war.

    Unfortunately, countries and individuals are punished all the time due to politics and policies. For example, US "Favored Nation" status is granted or refused based on politics and policies, among other criteria.

    When you mention "eBay.com vendors" refusing Canadian bids, do you mean individuals or merchants? Not that it matters, since either have the right to refuse whatever bids they choose.

    Countries, as well as individuals, act in their own self-interest. I don't agree with their tactics concerning neutral or anti-war countries and individuals, but I uphold their right to do so within the law.

    ------------------
    - Joe (strazzerjATaolDOTcom)
    Joe Strazzere
    Visit my website: AllThingsQuality.com to learn more about quality, testing, and QA!

  3. #3
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    Re: International Relations

    To be honest, I was quite surprised with all of the support between our two countries, combined efforts and our history that Canada would be penalized for this one stance. Considering the extent of our relationship, support for this particular effort is minimal in the big scheme of things (Canada is simply remaining neutral, which our Prime Minister is getting raked over the coals over to make a decision one way or another).


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  4. #4
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    Re: International Relations

    I tried to type an answer to this topic, and started off into a political rambling that might be inflammatory. So I deleted it. I'll just say: give the people of the USA (though not necessarily the government) some time to get over this. War tends to bring out the best and worst in people, which is probably why I find military history so interesting. Hopefully once this war is over (and soon I hope) things will return to normal, and we will forgive and forget (not to imply that there is anything warranting forgiveness). Hopefully the rest of you will be able to see some forgiveness in your hearts, too.

    ------------------
    Charles Reace (charlesDOTreaceATverizonDOTnet)
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    web site | [url=http://www.ebookworm.us/[/url]

    [i]...Sound trumpets! Every trumpet in the host! / Sixty thousand, on these words, sound, so high the mountains sound, and the valleys resound.&lt;/i] (The Song of Roland)

  5. #5
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    Re: International Relations

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by digits71:
    I'm curious how those who live in countries that are supporting the war feel about those countries that:

    a) are against it
    b) have chosen to remain neutral

    The reason I mention it is two-fold:

    1) An ambassador from the US told the Canadian government that Canada's lack of support will have a direct economic impact on Canada and our relations.
    2) Some US based ebay.com vendors are refusing Canadian bids on their products.

    Regardless of government policies or your views on the war - the PEOPLE of Canada are being punished due to politics and policies.

    I don't want to debate the war - in fact, I'm asking you not to.

    Please keep your comments directly to the two examples given. I'd be interested in your opinions!

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    The UK's government supports the war but the UK's population is split...latest surveys I've seen are about 44% against the war, 38% for it, and the rest undecided. The Conservative Party here supports the war; Labour backbenchers don't, and if we see a lot of British soldiers coming home in body bags, I think the Labour backbenchers might challenge Blair's leadership. The Liberal Democrat party seems largely against the war.

    I have an interesting perspective since I'm American. I've experienced more hostility in the last week than I've ever experienced in my life (except from the bullies in elementary school!). I don't really support military action; I think the U.S. government is not being entirely truthful with the public about their motives for this war and we still haven't seen any of the WMDs they started this war over. The silver lining is the possibility of getting rid of Saddam and restoring democracy in Iraq...but at what cost? I don't think anyone does ANYTHING without expecting something in return and I'm sure corporations in the U.S....the same ones that bankrolled Dubya's election...are positively rubbing their hands in anticipation of the fat, juicy contracts they'll get with Iraqi companies once Saddam is gone and the sanctions are lifted.



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  6. #6
    Moderator Joe Strazzere's Avatar
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    Re: International Relations

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by digits71:
    Canada is simply remaining neutral, which our Prime Minister is getting raked over the coals over to make a decision one way or another.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    So Canada has decided to be part of the "Coalition of the UnWilling"?

    (I just love these military/political catch-phrases, don't you?)

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  7. #7
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    Re: International Relations

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by digits71:
    To be honest, I was quite surprised with all of the support between our two countries, combined efforts and our history that Canada would be penalized for this one stance. Considering the extent of our relationship, support for this particular effort is minimal in the big scheme of things <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    *echos Charles and tries not to reply to qanerd's response*

    On the above point - politically speaking, the most recent actions of any country are often those held in highest import. So a spotty history becomes 'less critical' if there is support for a current action, and a picture-perfect history can be erased by a single action -- whether this particular war is worthy of that is a matter for debate.

    That being said, the 'anger' of the political US on this issue most likely stems from the fact that having as much 'Official Support' as possible of world governments could become more critical to the global government going forward, given that the US did not wait for a vote of the UN Security Council to sanction her actions -- I've heard argument that some believe support for or against, or being 'neutral' is more in relation to that than to support or belief of the actual actions. Governmentally speaking, there's a distinct possibility that's true.

    As a complete side-note, I find the idea of remaining 'neutral' to actions in the world (regardless of who's doing them) to be contemptable and based only on politics. The Swiss have long been ridiculed for such a stance, but with less fervor because of their lack of useful military. The US was criticized for attempting to remain neutral in WW2, other countries throughout history for similar actions. That's just a personal opinion, and certainly isn't targeted at Canada, because they're not the only country (again, governmentally speaking) to take such a stance.
    Annemarie Martin
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    Association for Software Testing

  8. #8
    Moderator Joe Strazzere's Avatar
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    Re: International Relations

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by QAGirl:
    As a complete side-note, I find the idea of remaining 'neutral' to actions in the world (regardless of who's doing them) to be contemptable and based only on politics.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    They're either with us or agin' us?

    Every country (even the US) is neutral on some actions in the world.

    It's hard for me to feel contempt for a country that decides they don't want to invest their people's lives and money in a war in which they have no stake.

    And, isn't everything based on politics?

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    Joe Strazzere
    Visit my website: AllThingsQuality.com to learn more about quality, testing, and QA!

  9. #9
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    Re: International Relations

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by digits71:
    Canada is simply remaining neutral, which our Prime Minister is getting raked over the coals ... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>My interpretation:
    1) Canadian Prime Minister was willing to join US. Almost on every occasion Canada is a strong supporter of US.
    2) He was not willing to break the international law (as represented currently by UN).
    Yury
    Testing, Performance Testing, Performance Engineering

  10. #10
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    Re: International Relations

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>...As a complete side-note, I find the idea of remaining 'neutral' to actions in the world (regardless of who's doing them) to be contemptable and based only on politics. The Swiss have long been ridiculed for such a stance, but with less fervor because of their lack of useful military. The US was criticized for attempting to remain neutral in WW2, other countries throughout history for similar actions. That's just a personal opinion, and certainly isn't targeted at Canada, because they're not the only country (again, governmentally speaking) to take such a stance.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    &ltDevilsAdvocate>One could say that the Swiss are consistently against war, rating that issue higher than the other political, social, and economic issues that drive other nations into killing each other's populations. (Of course, you can still argue that this "rating" is wrong in your opinion.) They are active participants and supporters of the International Red Cross, have hosted numerous peace councils and the various Geneva Conventions, etc. BTW, their army, particularly for a country their size, is nothing to sneeze at. One reason they remain neutral -- along with Sweden -- is that between the terrain and their armed forces it would be very difficult for any foreign power to invade them.&lt/DevilsAdvocate>

    ------------------
    Charles Reace (charlesDOTreaceATverizonDOTnet)
    "Forward!" he cried from the rear, and the front ranks died.
    The generals sat, and the lines on the map moved from side to side.

    (Roger Waters, "Us and Them")
    web site | [url=http://www.ebookworm.us/[/url]

    [i]...Sound trumpets! Every trumpet in the host! / Sixty thousand, on these words, sound, so high the mountains sound, and the valleys resound.&lt;/i] (The Song of Roland)

 

 
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