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  1. #1
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    Outsourcing Projects (Testing), mainly to India -- Impact ?

    Sorry to pick this up from the news group, but the kind of responses to this discussion made me think over, not a single response in favour or even assenting to.

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>originally posted by Rhmorrison:
    How common is it for U.S. companies to outsource to India software testing that was formerly done in-house in the U.S.? I know someone who is a software tester and lost her job ecause of this. My employer is doing this but so far I still have a job. I know U.S. companies have been outsourcing software development to India for over 10 years. As far as I know, they only began outsourcing software testing 3-4 years ago. Is this going to greatly reduce the number of jobs for software testing in the U.S.?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Here's the link to the discussion http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&...roup%3Dcomp.so ftware.testing

    I guess you will have to copy paste the link to your browser

    Some related events, news, rants etc.

    Call centers
    Britain woos Indian techies away from US
    Explosion of Global Software Teams
    Lifting up of Travel advisory
    India becoming world's back office

    Reactions ?

    ------------------
    never say die

    [This message has been edited by witchcrop (edited 09-03-2002).]
    Life, that dares send, A challenge to his end,
    And when it comes say, Welcome friend.

  2. #2
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    Re: Outsourcing Projects (Testing), mainly to India -- Impact ?

    http://www.contractoruk.co.uk/news030902b.html

    ------------------
    GUI automation is GUI automation. It is not testing.

  3. #3
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    Re: Outsourcing Projects (Testing), mainly to India -- Impact ?

    Reaction?

    This US citizen is annoyed - this issue has affected some of my friends in the industry.

    I guess, we in the IT field, now feel what our Manufacturing Industry has felt for a long time.

    No offense to my Indian friends - but I would like to see this trend change back.

    Now from a consumer perspective - I was recently routed to a call to India. There was a language problem barrier, and I ended up having to call back again - this time I got Canada and was able to have my problem solved.


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    JRica, CSTE
    Senior QA Analyst Lead
    JRicardo
    Senior SQA Analyst

  4. #4
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    Re: Outsourcing Projects (Testing), mainly to India -- Impact ?

    Well there are bound to be exactly two kinds of reactions. Folks in the US and Europe will be angry and those in India will express empathy while secretly feeling a mixture of guilt and glee.

    My guess is that the only jobs that did travel overseas were the ones that could. Government protectionism like the recent UK visa issue regulation change will only provide temporary insulation. India itself faces similar issues what with refugees pouring in from other states and neighbouring countries - just in different sectors. The license-permit raj just managed to keep the economy shackled. Reforms are often accompanied by unplanned changes and unforseen side effects. This is something to accept as a price for the freedom of the economy.

    Overall, consumerist economies go through phases like the current one which last until a new revolution spawning newer opportunities comes through.

    Here'a a title that explains some of the theory in clearer terms:
    Irrational Exuberance- Robert J. Shiller

    -Suresh
    Suresh Nageswaran, CQA, CSTE
    Lead Consultant
    Kanbay Inc.
    Pune, India.
    sureshnageswaran@yahoo.com

  5. #5
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    Re: Outsourcing Projects (Testing), mainly to India -- Impact ?

    Two very large retail companies based in my area have decided to use "strategic off-shore outsourcing" for their entire development effort. (overseas)
    Hundreds of jobs in this town are being eliminated for locals. One lady I know who works at one of them was told to get retrained or lose her job.

    The thing that makes me wonder is that these companies are NOT losing jobs, so the paper work doesn't reflect any change in employees. But their employees are losing jobs, or having to take lower paying positions just to stay employed.

    I do not have any problems with any of my overseas colleagues who take these jobs. I do think that the American industries that are shipping our jobs overseas are totally without conscience or honesty and think only of immediate gratification and quick profits at any cost to American workers.

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    Jean James, CSTE
    J.James Consulting, Inc.
    "I deliver what I promise, and I only promise what I can deliver."
    Jean James
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    I deliver what I promise, and I only promise what I can deliver.
    ------------------------------------------------------------

  6. #6
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    Re: Outsourcing Projects (Testing), mainly to India -- Impact ?

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>
    I do think that the American industries that are shipping our jobs overseas are totally without conscience or honesty and think only of immediate gratification and quick profits at any cost to American workers.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Capitalism works that way. The alternative is a socialist economy like India's which grows at a far sluggish pace. The illusion of external stability lulls people into complacence. Today after 45 years of socialism, we in India are left with public sector enterprises that are nothing more than employment centres. They eat up taxpayer monies and generate third-rate products that have no takers.

    The American way is at least honest to the extent that companies make no bones about why they are in business. They are there to make money - plain and simple. It is a better system by far.

    -Suresh
    Suresh Nageswaran, CQA, CSTE
    Lead Consultant
    Kanbay Inc.
    Pune, India.
    sureshnageswaran@yahoo.com

  7. #7
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    Re: Outsourcing Projects (Testing), mainly to India -- Impact ?

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeanj:

    I do think that the American industries that are shipping our jobs overseas are totally without conscience or honesty and think only of immediate gratification and quick profits at any cost to American workers.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Agreed with Suresh.A business is not a social welfare center.Risk is involved and the entrepreneurs take that risk to earn high returns.As long as they are not doing anything which contradicts the law,they are free to decide without guilt on issues like outsourcing.

    What i am concerned about is that all this might turn into a vicious circle for America and indirectly,the world.You outsource more as a result of which more jobs are lost and the economy goes into a deeper recession.This encourages more outsourcing and again the same thing happens round and round in circles.I wonder whether the benefits from outsourcing will outweigh the loss of employment for the U.S. economy as a whole.

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by punekar:

    The alternative is a socialist economy like India's which grows at a far sluggish pace.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    I got to disagree with you on this Suresh.The Indian economy is a mixed economy.It's far different from a true socialist economy like that of the erstwhile U.S.S.R.

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  8. #8
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    Re: Outsourcing Projects (Testing), mainly to India -- Impact ?

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>
    You outsource more as a result of which more jobs are lost and the economy goes into a deeper recession.This encourages more outsourcing and again the same thing happens round and round in circles.I wonder whether the benefits from outsourcing will outweigh the loss of employment for the U.S. economy as a whole.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    This theory implies/assumes that there is exactly *one* business sector that is acting as the prime mover of the economy. I accept that the IT sector has been one of the foremost beneficiaries of capital fund recipients in the last 5 years, but there are far larger investments in far bigger sectors that outweigh the effects.

    The current recession is not one born out of a single atomic reason. Specifically, in the IT industry, the specific reason is the foolish dotcom gold rush. In other industries, the causes are different.

    The outsourcing of jobs are meant to cut costs and it is a sensible investment on many fronts. But this is not restricted to IT - even manufacturing has outsourced to Indonesia, India and (largely) China. Maybe there was some silly Chester hat manufacturing facility in OneHorseTown in the US which laid off all its workers. You dont hear about that because blue collar(pardon the term) workers are not as vocal as folks in this industry.

    America has traditionally been a consumerist economy and countries have been busy building their economies around it. It is predicted that this will change to accomodate newer economies like China and India. The purchasing power that we have is still far lower than the US, but this will grow steadily over this decade.

    The bottomline is that outsourcing is not bad and is not the cause of the recession. The next "big wave" is probably around the corner and people won't even remember these arguments when that gold rush starts.

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>
    The Indian economy is a mixed economy.It's far different from a true socialist economy like that of the erstwhile U.S.S.R.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    But only *since* reforms started in the late 90's. Until then we were more socialist than the socialists. Even now, the Railways and Power ministries run overbloated PSUs that still follow the socialist patterns. If you recall, Ram Vilas Paswan pretty much used them to satisfy his local constituency.

    But yes, certain sectors like IT are still (thankfully) outside their purview. But I am optimistic about the economy in general. Who would have thought that we would achieve the growth we did ?

    -Suresh
    Suresh Nageswaran, CQA, CSTE
    Lead Consultant
    Kanbay Inc.
    Pune, India.
    sureshnageswaran@yahoo.com

  9. #9
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    Re: Outsourcing Projects (Testing), mainly to India -- Impact ?

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally by Suresh:
    ...and those in India will express empathy while secretly feeling a mixture of guilt and glee.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Why the guilt ?

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally by JRica:
    ... but I would like to see this trend change back.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Certainly, but then how ethically correct is the industry when it dumps tonnes of goods into the foreign markets and outruns the local industry, few times resulting in a shutdown, maybe for more than a single reason. Isn't this robbbing them of their part of share (jobs)?

    I guess what goes around, comes around. Many will disagree.

    Gaur,
    I was kind of hoping for your perspective on this. Especially after reading your posts in the Love Hate Relationship thread.

    ------------------
    never say die
    Life, that dares send, A challenge to his end,
    And when it comes say, Welcome friend.

  10. #10
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    Re: Outsourcing Projects (Testing), mainly to India -- Impact ?

    Non IT related.
    In the UK, a lot of major banks, credit card companies are or have shifted their call centres to Delhi India.

    So if you ring up your bank especially HSBC the chances are you'll be speaking to an operative in India, who normally has a degree, speeks excellent English and has pride in their work -it's regarded as a very good job, where as in the UK, call centre staff are normally low-paid staff who move from job to job.

    Hell, the staff in India have to watch English TV and read the UK papers so that they can make small talk with the customers about newsworthy UK events.


    ------------------

 

 
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