SPONSORS:






User Tag List

Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    153
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Rennes Le Chateau!

    Has anyone been curious about this? It just made news that their going to excavate under the town to find the actual truth after all these years. Does anyone really believe in the "lost treasure"? They say there's also a secret group involved that's trying to take over Europe. I guess part of the evidence came when they found Leonardo Vinci painted the Shroud of Turin or something. Anyone else know something of this?

    I heard that it started with a priest in 1800s who had information the Vatican did not want released. They say he found a treasure that the Vatican didn't want released so he bribed them somehow and now some groups are searching for that treasure again. It's hard to find details on this though.

    ------------------

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    Chicago,Illinois,USA
    Posts
    2,537
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: Rennes Le Chateau!

    Oh no! Please tell me you have not fallen for the hoax of Rennes-Le-Château. (For hoax it is, my dear.) You will waste untold hours of your life investigating what is, I have come to understand, a patent hoax. And my understanding is based on a great deal of investigation I did into just this subject. In fact, I even traveled to the area with one of those tour groups that you can sign up for.

    First: yes, there probably is a treasure. There is no reason to think there is not treasure of the physical kind there nor would it be amazing to any degree. The Romans, the Visigoths, the Knights Templar, the Merovingians - all were in that area and all had vast amounts of wealth, some of which no doubt remains. (The other "treasure," that which was used to "bribe" the Vatican, is of a totally different nature. Or so it is alleged.)

    Second: the group wanting to "take over Europe" is alleged to be the Prieuré de Sion (Priory of Sion). Another hoax. And, yes, I have a mountain of evidence that I have adduced that tells me this. That is not to say that there is not a group that calls itself the Priory of Sion. There is. And that is not even to say that some who claim to be members of this group have thoughts of world hegemony. However, there is little to no proof of the long historical pedigree that the Priory of Sion has claimed for itself. (Or, rather, that some have claimed for it.)

    Third: yes, the latest evidence is somewhat good that Leonardo da Vinci "painted" (if you can call it that) the Shroud of Turin. However, that proves nothing about the Priory of Sion or the alleged "mystery" surrounding Rennes-Le-Château.

    The priest you are referring to is Bérenger Saunière and he worked in Rennes-Le-Château from 1885 to, I believe, 1917. Yes, he was a very strange guy who did some very strange things. However, there is much about his overall story that does not make sense or that has been proven to be patently false, at least in some of the particulars. (I would maintain that his "bribing" of the Vatican is one of those particulars.)

    I am sure some of our Europe-based members of QA Forums would have their own opinions on this subject as they are much closer to the action, so to speak.

    ------------------

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    2,693
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: Rennes Le Chateau!

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JeffNyman:
    Oh no! Please tell me you have not fallen for the hoax of Rennes-Le-Château. (For hoax it is, my dear.) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Sheesh, Jeff, you really are having trouble expressing yourself today, dearest. You should try to be more straightforeward when posting responses, or people might not get the 'gist' of your opinion!

    ------------------
    "I want the fairy tale..."
    Annemarie Martin
    Secretary
    Association for Software Testing

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    153
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: Rennes Le Chateau!

    Oh yea, Jeff I figure you have SOMETHING to say about this. Like QAGirl, I not so sure about hoax though! It's never wrong to investigate, right?

    I read about priest and they say that in 1891 he finds parchments of odd sort. Parchments have been reproduced in various books and the code is quite obvious so the books say though I don't see it. What I don't get is what he bribed the Vatican with. The parchments? Is there a simple story behind what happened to him? For example, I know that they ordered his coffin receipt days before he actually died from an unexpected stroke. Odd, no? Did the Vatican kill him?

    ------------------

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    2,693
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: Rennes Le Chateau!

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoonMinYee:
    Like QAGirl, I not so sure about hoax though! It's never wrong to investigate, right?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Sorry, Soon Min... I agree with Jeff on this one. I was just amused at how he chose to convey his opinion - he's been a brash boy today LOL.

    I've not read nearly to the extent either of you has, so I can't join a debate, but I do believe that much of what Jeff stated is more accurate than not.

    ------------------
    "I want the fairy tale..."
    Annemarie Martin
    Secretary
    Association for Software Testing

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    153
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: Rennes Le Chateau!

    Ah yes, Jeff, but here I think you wrong! From what I gather the priest was kicked out of church by bishops. He then appealed to Rome Church and Rome immediately (!) reinstated him even though he was kicked out for good reason by the bishops. The question seems to have been why the Roman Church immediately reinstated the priest when it was known he was practicing simony.

    And yes I'd like to at least see the codes from the parchments. I'm more interested in getting as much detail as possible right now rather than retrace path others have already taken. I did find the "REX MUNDI" part on the one parchment.

    ------------------

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    Chicago,Illinois,USA
    Posts
    2,537
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: Rennes Le Chateau!

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoonMinYee:
    From what I gather the priest was kicked out of church by bishops. He then appealed to Rome Church and Rome immediately (!) reinstated him even though he was kicked out for good reason by the bishops ....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yes, he was originally kicked out by a bishop. Actually, it was the relatively famous Paul-Félix Beauvain de Beauséjour. (This was the Bishop of Carcassonne, which was the episcopal seat for Rennes-le-Château.) A local tribunal, after deliberating the case the bishop brought forth on simony, decided to suspend Saunière, and I think this was in 1910. However, here is some of what you are probably missing:

    (1.) The mayor of Rennes-le-Château was, by some accounts, on Saunière's side and let the bishops know that this was causing problems in the town.

    (2.) The villagers pretty much told the new priest that was instated to take a flying leap and, in fact, kept going to see Saunière at his private preachings.

    (3.) Saunière was, apparently, going to sue the bishop for defamation of character.

    (4.) It would seem that the Vatican was not given all of the details of the case. Their reinstatement of Saunière was based on lack of evidence. Eventually the Vatican authorities discovered the full facts of what had been going on and, in 1915, Saunière was suspended for good.

    So the idea of the Roman Catholic Church immediately reinstating him is not as odd as it might at first sound.

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>And yes I'd like to at least see the codes from the parchments.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Parchment One Code:
    A DAGOBERT II ROI ET A SION EST CE TRESOR ET IL EST LA MORT

    Parchment Two Code:
    BERGERE PAS DE TENTATION QUE POUSSIN TENIERS
    GARDENT LA CLEF PAX DCLXXXI PAR LA CROIX ET CE
    CHEVAL DE DIEU J'ACHEVE CE DAEMON DE GARDIEN A
    MIDI POMMES BLEUES

    You do understand French, oui?


    ------------------

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    Chicago,Illinois,USA
    Posts
    2,537
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: Rennes Le Chateau!

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoonMinYee:
    Like QAGirl, I not so sure about hoax though! It's never wrong to investigate, right?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No, no - of course it is always good to investigate claims. Heck, I spent a total of about four years (non-contiguous) immersed in this subject to determine its validity. When I started out, I really thought there was much more truth to it than I now feel is the case. All I meant is that it will prove to be a massive time sink for you because the story actually becomes incredibly convoluted and deals with many subjects. Also, if you are of Roman Catholic persuasion, you will probably not like the outcome of a lot of the research, depending upon how devout you are. (For example, if the thought of da Vinci creating the Turin shroud causes you upset, you will not like some of the other implications that come about.) Just gather appropriate sources and make sure that you apply healthy criticism to each of the sources you use.

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>I read about priest and they say that in 1891 he finds parchments of odd sort. Parchments have been reproduced in various books and the code is quite obvious so the books say though I don't see it. What I don't get is what he bribed the Vatican with. The parchments?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    There is discrepancy, first of all, of whether any parchments were ever found. There is also question of exactly where they were found. (Accounts differ.) There is also question of just how many were found, although it would seem to be four - if any were found at all. There is also question of when. The 1891 date has been brought into serious question. In fact, the evidence I have gathered suggests it most likely was in 1886, if it was at anytime.

    They are clever parchments that do have codes interspersed and the one from the famous "second parchment" is very complex. It helps if you read Latin if you are trying to decode them for yourself. I will give you clues: the first parchment is an odd mixture from three of the Synoptic gospels, specifically Luke 6:1-5, Matthew 12:1-8, and Mark 2:23-28. The second parchment is just a passage from John 12:1-11. Knowing that and knowing Latin, the discrepancies become obvious. If you are interested I will give the codes, although they have been fairly widely published. (It helps to know French as well, by the way.)

    And, yes, some feel that the contents of the parchments were what the Vatican was scared of. Some feel that this "bribe" would explain his enormous wealth that came on him so suddenly.

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Is there a simple story behind what happened to him? For example, I know that they ordered his coffin receipt days before he actually died from an unexpected stroke. Odd, no? Did the Vatican kill him?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yes, there is a relatively simple story of the life of Saunière, as it pertains to the mystery. Yes, there is evidence that a receipt for his coffin was purchased days before he had his stroke. What is not known is if he was near death prior to the time of his stroke and thus there was good reason to get him a coffin. Witnesses have supposedly said that he was in fine (apparent) health at that time and the coffin receipt is definitely one tangible aspect to the mystery that is hard to account for. And, no, it is doubtful that the Vatican killed him. In fact, it is doubtful that they cared about him one way or the other except to excommunicate him for the charges of simony that were brought against him.

    ------------------

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    153
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: Rennes Le Chateau!

    I definitely not know of things you mention. That is interesting. Can you give me straight story of what happened with priest. What's the basic story then? I've got a feeling that what I'm hearing isn't right.

    ------------------

    By the way: codes are meaningless to me. I see reference to Dagobert II but it says he owns dead treasure??? The other one mentions blue apples? Meaningless.

    [This message has been edited by SoonMinYee (edited 12-08-2001).]

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    Chicago,Illinois,USA
    Posts
    2,537
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: Rennes Le Chateau!

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoonMinYee:
    By the way: codes are meaningless to me. I see reference to Dagobert II but it says he owns dead treasure??? The other one mentions blue apples? Meaningless.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The first code, in English, is:

    This treasure belongs to Dagobert II King and to Sion and he is there dead

    It does not talk about "dead treasure." Of course, there is some tense problems with the sentence since it does not seem to follow accurate French grammar rules. For example, another way to read it:

    This treasure belongs to Dagobert II King and to Sion and it is death

    or even:

    This treasure belongs to Dagobert II and at Sion and it is there dormant

    I really do not want to sit here and explain the whole thing as that could take a long post. However, regarding the second code, the key is not really the "blue apples." Look at the code again. Notice two particular names? They should stand out. (Hint: think "artists.") That is one of the keys to the second code. (Oh, and, this is where the Leonardo da Vinci connection also starts to kick in, albeit indirectly.)

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Can you give me straight story of what happened with priest. What's the basic story then? I've got a feeling that what I'm hearing isn't right.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The story of the priest is basically that Saunière comes to Rennes in 1885. He is extremely poor and his salary is only seventy-five francs per month. (This equates to about £6 sterling per year in United Kingdom pounds or $9 in United States currency.) The church was practically falling over when he got there from disrepair. Apparently he managed to borrow some money to repair the church. While repairing the altar (around 1891 by most accounts) he found parchments in a hollow Visigothic pillar that supported the altar. He knew they were in Latin and he could recognize the biblical passages but he also noticed the oddities in the parchments, such as the odd raised letters, the breaking off of sentences, the extra letters, the strange symbols, etc.

    (I assume you have pictures of the parchments in whatever sources you are using. If not, let me know. I can send you my JPEG reproductions.)

    He showed the parchments to a local bishop who was totally confused by them as well but suggested that Saunière take them to the ecclesiastical authorities in Paris. Supposedly he did this. The details of what happened in Paris are sketchy but when he came back he immediately began a massive restoration of the church and the entire town. In fact, he began to spend money like it was going out of style. He also began to receive visits from various members of the nobility from the surrounding lands, some of whom allegedly made large donations to Saunière.

    Eventually the local bishops became suspicious of where all this money was coming from. They investigated (as I mentioned in the last post) and kicked him out. Saunière apparently appealed to the Roman Church who may have reinstated him (although there is even some doubt of his reinstatement).

    So the big mystery: where was the money coming from? What was on those parchments? Was it tied to his sudden wealth? If so, why?

    As it continues, Saunière did have a housekeeper named Marie Dénarnaud that was his close confidant. As Saunière was dying, a priest was brought in to administer his last rites and to hear Saunière's confession. When this confession was made it is reported that the priest left in a hurry and did not administer the last rites based on what he heard. Upon Saunière's death from the stroke, Marie took over his estate. As she got up in years she planned to sell the estate to one Noël Corbu. She told him that she would reveal a secret to him that Saunière knew and that this secret would not only convey great wealth, but great power as well. However, in 1953, she died suddenly (from a stroke, coincidentally enough) before she could reveal anything.

    I am skipping a lot of detail here but that is the basics of the story.

    ------------------

 

 
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.36 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 11.54%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.6.4 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.2.8 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBNominate (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Username Changing provided by Username Change (Free) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
BetaSoft Inc.
Digital Point modules: Sphinx-based search
All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:18 AM.

Copyright BetaSoft Inc.