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  1. #1
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    management and admiration...

    My CEO is coaching me on managing (I was coached on QA managing by an external consultant that my company hired), especially on the HR aspect of managing and I am very happy with his training (he really taught and helped me a lot in some very delicate HR issues). My CEO says that a good manager is admired by her/his team. Is this really necessary? It is hard for me to accept that, and I don’t think that I would like to be admired and I actually afraid of it. I have many concerns with this and I tend to look at it as a political issue (admiration is strongly connected in my head with right-wing political leaders). I read an article that touches this a bit which its link ( http://www.stickyminds.com/s.asp?F=S10294_COL_2 ) was given by ‘Testing Consultant’ in another discussion. It talks about management and leadership. Do you think that in order to be a good leader your team members have to admire you?

    Thanks, Ofer

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    Re: management and admiration...

    I would say that a good manager should be respected by his team members rather than be admired.

  3. #3
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    Re: management and admiration...

    Ofer,

    I would agree with your CEO, IMO it is desirable for a manager to be admired rather than just respected. For example, I might respect a mad dog, but given half a chance I'll kill it. If I admire the same dog, I might be more tempted to cure it. If you can instill admiration in someone, you can often motivate them to work diligently without making them feel threatened. This in turn is likely to make them more successful in their career, not to mention happier. If you haven't already read it, Machievelli's 'The Prince' covers this ground pretty well. You're right in saying it can be a political issue; politicians from the left and right use charisma equally, wherever possible. That said, as you move onward and upward in your career, politics are often unavoidable.

    For much of my life, I have been inspired to succeed by people that I admire, and it seems only fair to try to go on and inspire others [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

    Best regards,

    Shane

  4. #4
    Moderator Joe Strazzere's Avatar
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    Re: management and admiration...

    [ QUOTE ]
    It talks about management and leadership. Do you think that in order to be a good leader your team members have to admire you?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No.

    Being a good leader is about getting things done through your team.

    As with pretty much anything, there are many ways to achieve a given goal.

    Being admired (or liked, or respected, or feared, etc.) might be one way, but it certainly isn't the only way.
    Joe Strazzere
    Visit my website: AllThingsQuality.com to learn more about quality, testing, and QA!

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    Re: management and admiration...

    Yeah, Joe, I suppose that FEAR is a method to get things done, but it's really not very conducive to a team spirit.

    I think this brings us back to previous discussions about cultural differences. For instance, should respect be earned or automatically given? As for admiration, that depends on your definition of the word. I feel that if you respect someone, then you have to admire that person in some respect. The two are interconnected.
    Personal Comment

    Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.
    ~ Winston Churchill ~


    ...Rich Wagner

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    Re: management and admiration...

    [ QUOTE ]

    Being a good leader is about getting things done through your team.

    As with pretty much anything, there are many ways to achieve a given goal.

    Being admired (or liked, or respected, or feared, etc.) might be one way, but it certainly isn't the only way.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    As stated by Joe, I also learned this from my mentors -
    Manage by influence.

    Now, you can influence people - your own team or external by respect, admiration or fear or combination of these. It varies from person to person or group to group and depends heavily on the situation you are in.

    Also, you are only thinking about managing down, most of the times you are in the middle of the management ladder. You have to manage down as well as up. Same technique may not be applicable which you used for managing people reporting to you to manage higher management you report to.

    Key is to influence people (both up and below) with your knowledge, personality, speech, overall charisma, authority, and so on (n number of attributes that you need to develop to be a good manager and leader) so that they automatically accept you as manager and leader.

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    Re: management and admiration...

    I think that for me it would depend on the definition of admire that was being used.

    Note - the definitions I am using were obtained from MSword thesaurus


    If it was one of:
    <ul type="square">[*]Have a high regard for [*] approve of[*] think highly of[*] like[*] respect[/list]

    Then I would agree that it would be good to have this attribute, getting it from a whole team may be difficult.

    If however the definition was one of the following:
    <ul type="square">
    [*] be in awe of[*] marvel at[/list]

    Then no I would not agree.

    Also as many of the posts have said - there are many other things that a leader needs from their team.
    Lynne

    I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work" --Thomas Edison

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    Re: management and admiration...

    [ QUOTE ]
    For example, I might respect a mad dog, but given half a chance I'll kill it.
    Shane

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's not respect, it's fear. Many people that demand 'respect' for themselves don't know the difference.

    He/she is working from a position of fear themselves. When managing/ruling with fear the "leader" must always keep their back to the wall an maintain a constant vigilance against those he controls. People do not follow him/her willingly and will subvert them given the chance.

    Respect is earned.

    We'll see the consequence of this type of leadership on Nov 7th.

    MArk B.
    If you're a slave to your free associations, does it automatically become something else?

  9. #9
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    Re: management and admiration...

    Thanks a lot guys. You brought here some good and interesting points.

    I will start with ‘Fear’. IMO this is a very bad managing approach. I believe that managers use fear as a tool because they think that this is how they can gain the admiration of their team. What really bad about this is that their team doesn’t report on mistakes that they do, problems and risks because of fear. This team can’t learn from mistakes because they hide them. I always encourage my team members to report to the team on mistakes they do so we can all learn from these errors. If they afraid of me it would never work.

    About the definition of ‘admiration’. Here is the definition at Dictionary.com:

    1. a feeling of wonder, pleasure, or approval.
    2. the act of looking on or contemplating with pleasure: admiration of fine paintings.
    3. an object of wonder, pleasure, or approval: The dancer was the admiration of everyone.
    4. Archaic. wonder; astonishment.

    Of course that everyone agrees on respect but you can see in the dictionary’s definition that admiration is not respect. If my CEO had only said “You have to gain the respect of your team”, I would not post it here. I also have to respect my team members (always!). I agree with Lynne: “getting it from a whole team may be difficult”, but I think that it is a must and I would work hard on that if I have to. And I think that being respected is not necessarily being liked.

    Now I want to talk about admiration by shifting to another environment. When I told my CEO that I don’t think admiration is necessary he said that I, as being a commander in the army in my past, should agree on the importance of admiration. Yes, in the army, admiration can sometime be the only thing that causes soldiers to do what their commander asks them to. There are situations that the fear of the results of obeying a commander is bigger than the fear of the results of not obeying him/her (jail for instance). These soldiers still obey their commander only because they admire him, which in this context means that they trust and follow him/her even if it is against their instincts.
    I had never thought, even in my worse nightmares, that herd of testers will follow me blindly to the fields of death in the lost battle against the cruel bugs.
    Seriously, I really don’t think that this is necessary, and I even think that this is wrong. When you admire someone like that, you can’t see his/her mistakes. I don’t want that. I want them to tell me when I am wrong. And I do feel lucky because they do. How will I ever learn if I won’t know when I am wrong? What I want to say is that admiring your manager can be bad for the team and the company.
    I do however like Shane’s sentence: “For much of my life, I have been inspired to succeed by people that I admire, and it seems only fair to try to go on and inspire others”. It is very nice and I agree. I checked again in Dictionary.com for ‘inspire’ and ‘inspiration’ and they never mention admiration in the definitions. Yes I would love to inspire them if I can and I will try, but I don’t think that this is as important as being respected by them.

    Again guys, I appreciate your inputs on that, and I am glad to see that I am not freak by thinking that admiration of a QA manager by his/her team of testers is not really necessary.

    Ofer

  10. #10
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    Re: management and admiration...

    Interesting the different emphasis in defintion between an American and UK English dictionary. The Collins English dictionary is as follows;

    Admire
    1. To regard with esteem, respect, approval, or pleased surprise.
    2. Archaic. To wonder at.

    Cultural differences between Ireland and the US of A, who'da thunk it.

 

 
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