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  1. #1
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    Automated tools discussions during the job interview

    I've been browsing the automated tools forum and reading some articles it links to. One of the Sticky Minds articles says;

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>"The words automated testing often cause many tech executives to smack their lips in anticipation of reduced overhead, shorter quality assurance (QA) cycles, and lower personnel expenses. You can almost hear their excitement: “Whittle down the project budget and deliver a project early? Give me two or three helpings, please.”<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    This is the attitude I ran into in my recent job hunt. I don't have automation experience, but I do know enough about it to know that the above philosophy is totally erroneous, and probably perpetuated by the sales people for the automation tools.

    So, one gets to the interview and is told 'We're going totally automated. We need to cut our development time.." etc...
    What would you say in that interview to that type of a discussion? And how would you sell YOUR abilities, whether you be an automated tool guru or a manual process QA person?

    Would you try to tell them the truth about how they have a misconception of how the automated tools work?


    ------------------
    Jean James, CSTE
    J.James Consulting, Inc.
    Jean James
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    I deliver what I promise, and I only promise what I can deliver.
    ------------------------------------------------------------

  2. #2
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    Re: Automated tools discussions during the job interview

    Hi,
    Automated tools can be helpful in load testing but with the powerful webservers and proper methodology being followed,i dont find any problems with respect to the software application developed subject to load.
    2 years back when we developed a e-commerce site,our business requirement needed to satisfy 100 users hitting the site at a time and the number was relatively small too.
    But even for that,we send a mail to everyone in the organization asking them to go through the site and send in their valid suggestions.It was just basically meant for testing the load.It was a success too.
    Now with the invent of automated tools,i ve heard that it saves lot of time for load test.But im yet to be sure of the power of the software.
    Are these tools really effective and correct?
    You cannot make a site walk through or test the site for functionality with automated tool.
    It is always manual testing which is going to be really effective at the end of the day.
    There are lot of chances that there are still lot of hidden errors in the system which are not exposed.
    Although im not the one completely against the use of automated tools,and being a tester for the past 2 years i was not in need of a automated tool to test a project.
    I ve belief in me than the tools.
    I may face a lot of people contradicting my views here but i would like to take them on.

  3. #3
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    Re: Automated tools discussions during the job interview

    I agree with SBalaji,

    The purpose of Automation is not to replace manual testing
    Automation and Tools are not panacea

    In the light of deadlines and commitments, people tend to cut short things, including testing. This is one situation where automation becomes life-or-death for the organization.

    "If you don’t automate, the product just doesn’t get out of the door,"

    This calls for some really sophisticated, highly capable tools.

    But I dont think that Tools will catch all the deffects.
    To Site one example, I was using Code coverage for our Framework. While Instrumentation , Tools used to CRASH !!

    As our Framework was developed with not the Application Wizard from VC , but Using our own Application Wizard which was created by us and integrated with VC.

    Cheers


    ------------------
    Dinesh
    Dinesh
    Be your Own Light

  4. #4
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    Re: Automated tools discussions during the job interview

    Automating everything does not mean doing away with manual testing.It just means try to automate as much is possible and feasible and test the rest manually.The manual testing supplement is invaluable when you are doing automated testing.

    Almost all tool vendors hype the record and playback feature of their tools.Since i have done some automation,i did not find it to be doing everything i wanted.I had been to a seminar held by Rational and got a chance to interact one to one with their technical lead (India) for half an hour and he agreed that generally, not more than around 70% of the features could be automated using record/playback.The remaining portions are for you to script and automate.So,your tests get automated only to the extent you have the scripts for them.Moreover,there could be some features automating testing of which might not be possible/feasible.

    You need to devote a lot of time in getting your scripts ready and the UI also needs to be steady for automation to work effectively.The more the number of regression cycles you are going to go through,the larger the benefits from automating the tests.

    Automation can be of immense help in freeing the testing resources so that they can get to sit down and ponder over more testcases and get a sturdy software built.I do not think that testing costs come down dramatically due to automation but the product should be,no doubt,more reliable if automation had been done properly.

    Manual testing??Whatever be the extent of automation done by you,you just can't do away with manual testing!!!

    ------------------


    [This message has been edited by gaur (edited 06-24-2002).]

  5. #5
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    Re: Automated tools discussions during the job interview

    According to me, it is better to use Automation with Product type of Software, if s/w is project type with lots of customisation u should use Manual Testing.
    100% Automation is not possible correct me if i am wrong

    (i am bit confused with Topic name and its contents)

    -amit



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  6. #6
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    Re: Automated tools discussions during the job interview

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by amitathawale:
    According to me, it is better to use Automation with Product type of Software, if s/w is project type with lots of customisation u should use Manual Testing.
    100% Automation is not possible correct me if i am wrong

    (i am bit confused with Topic name and its contents)
    -amit

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Sorry if I put the subject in a confusing manner, let me re-phrase it.

    Say you're on a job interview and the discussions turns to automation and the person interviewing you says something to effect "we are moving all our testing to automation immediately to get our products to market faster, better. We need to cut our test time, and so we're looking just for automated tool experts."

    What would you say to that during the interview?


    ------------------
    Jean James, CSTE
    J.James Consulting, Inc.
    Jean James
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    I deliver what I promise, and I only promise what I can deliver.
    ------------------------------------------------------------

  7. #7
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    Re: Automated tools discussions during the job interview

    If he is looking for Automated tester then What to Say , he has already made a decesion ??

    Solution : KNOW AUTOMATION AND ATTEMPT INTERVIEW

    If he ask you whether it will help him to cut cost then you can give the FUNDAS of MANUAL TESTING / AUTOMATION TESTING.


    CHEERS

    ------------------
    Dinesh
    Dinesh
    Be your Own Light

  8. #8
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    Re: Automated tools discussions during the job interview

    I'm not doing a very good job of explaining myself today. Let me try again.

    A company says "We are automating our tests to cut time and costs".
    You know that they have been told something erroneous, but you're trying to get a job with them.
    Would you;
    1) Agree and sell yourself as their automation person.
    2) Try to explain that they have been misled in that belief and sell yourself as the person who can help them with their QA efforts.

    ------------------
    Jean James, CSTE
    J.James Consulting, Inc.
    Jean James
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    I deliver what I promise, and I only promise what I can deliver.
    ------------------------------------------------------------

  9. #9
    Moderator Joe Strazzere's Avatar
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    Re: Automated tools discussions during the job interview

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeanj:
    I'm not doing a very good job of explaining myself today. Let me try again.

    A company says "We are automating our tests to cut time and costs".
    You know that they have been told something erroneous, but you're trying to get a job with them.
    Would you;
    1) Agree and sell yourself as their automation person.
    2) Try to explain that they have been misled in that belief and sell yourself as the person who can help them with their QA efforts.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I would ask questions trying to understand more about their thoughts.

    Perhaps by "cut time" they mean "reduce the amount of time to run a regression cycle". That's reasonable.

    Perhaps by "cut costs" they mean "find a way to avoid bringing in 100 manual testers near the end of a product cycle". That might be reasonable too.

    If I came to the conclusion that they were on the right track or could be brought onto the right track, then I would convince them that I was the right person to lead the effort.

    If I came to the conclusion that they were hopeless, then I'd thank them for the interview and move on. (Unless of course I really needed the job. In which case I'd convince them I was the right person to help them set their goals.)

    ------------------
    - Joe (strazzerj@aol.com)
    Joe Strazzere
    Visit my website: AllThingsQuality.com to learn more about quality, testing, and QA!

  10. #10
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    Re: Automated tools discussions during the job interview

    I do agree with Joe.

    Getting to know the reason for the change in the attitude of the management to go for complete automation would be my first objective.

    We have to know for sure the level of test that they feel is going to cut their cost,time etc in automating the test process.

    As it is inevitable that automated testing alone will not help the process and the importance of manual testing is always there,i would in all probability convince the management on my views based on their response for the automated testing transfer.

    I would convince that i was the right person for the job by showing them my knowledge in automated testing(pros and cons) and where the automated testing is really going to play the role in the project.At the end of the day,what everyone wants is success.

    I would definitely succeed in such a situation.

    Hoping to see more views on this situation.

 

 
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