SPONSORS:






User Tag List

Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Results 1 to 7 of 7
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Is Software QA a dinosaur?

    I keep running into an attitude from management and from a powerful group of developers at my company that Agile development means we don't need a QA department. We already pretty much don't have a QA department, but anyway... No matter how many times I have explained that R&D does need to do testing and that's all great, we also need people who actually install the product and use it like a customer. I say that QA testing is not the same as Developer testing. I point to our bug database that shows QA finds big critical bugs that Developer testing doesn't find. But it seems like it falls on deaf ears because every couple of months I have to repeat myself.
    So what's the story people? Am I just Don Quixote tilting at a windmill? I'm made to feel like I am somehow standing in the way of progress. I don't FEEL like I'm standing in the way of progress, but when I am told something again and again I start to question my own sanity.
    I am interested in hearing others' opinions on this subject. Thanks!
    -edj

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    256
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: Is Software QA a dinosaur?

    Get a copy of Gerald M. Weinberg's "Perfect Software and other illusions about testing"

    To curb the corporate culture against testers, I would suggest being much more positive around the developers. Try feeding the fire on their ego's by giving lots of positive feedback.
    Software Testing, Second Edition: "Intelligently weighing the risks and reducing the infinite possibilities to a manageable effective set is where the magic is."

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: Is Software QA a dinosaur?

    Well, my own team of developers really appreciates my work and I always report problems using a 'we' attitude, especially when I report bugs outside my area. So that is not the problem. I get along great with developers because I dig in to the problems and report good, clear bug reports, and have quite a few coding skills myself. I don't see it as R&D vs. QA and never have.

    It just really seems like the latest thing in cost-saving corporate culture these days is that we suddenly don't need QA. I hear things like "Old-school companies like Microsoft have huge QA departments." (With the implication that this is out-of-date thinking.) I guess I'm asking how do others deal with that attitude? It makes me feel like some in the company don't think what I do is adding value, or even that I'm dragging down the bottom line. And that hurts.

    I'll take a look at the book. Thanks!
    -edj

  4. #4
    Moderator Joe Strazzere's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    13,170
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: Is Software QA a dinosaur?

    Fortunately, what you are hearing isn't shared everywhere (at least not in the companies where I've worked).

    [ QUOTE ]
    I point to our bug database that shows QA finds big critical bugs that Developer testing doesn't find.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You might want to play what I call the "It's a Wonderful Life" game. Present to them what their life would have looked like without QA.

    Without QA, those critical bugs would have made it into production. What would the CEO have said? What would the customers have said? Who might have missed out on their bonus? Who might have gotten fired? Who might have had to work nights and weekends to get it fixed?

    Be creative with this. Even a bit over-the-top.

    Present it in a meeting, perhaps with slides and film clips.

    I'm not sure if it would help, or if it's a lost cause at your shop, but it might be worth exploring.
    Joe Strazzere
    Visit my website: AllThingsQuality.com to learn more about quality, testing, and QA!

  5. #5
    SQA Knight
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Highlands Ranch, CO, USA
    Posts
    2,860
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: Is Software QA a dinosaur?

    If you have people telling you that they don't need testers because they use Agile methods then they are not doing Agile properly.

    Testing, both by Developers and Testers, is an integral part of the Agile methodologies. Agile is not an excuse to go and do "Cowboy" programming again. This tells me that you have some very process immature people there and they don't know it but they are steering towards a large brick wall. Your role as a tester on an agile team is to be the "extra set of eyes" for the developer and company. You not only perform testing tasks but are (and should be) more involved in the Risk Management & preventative practice work.

    I definitely suggest you use Joe's example. Give them a view of "A Release without Tester's". Also, be sure to emphasize the impacts of the supposed "cost savings" of not having testing. Put it in money terms, and you will see how the management will either get a clue (which is what you want) or not (which means you're arranging deck chairs on the Titanic).

    I recommend reading the following whitepaper: Bob Burley - Best Investment to Make. It should give you some good ammo.

    Good luck.
    Jim
    -------------------------------------------
    For all the general stuff to know about QA/Test go here http://www.softwareqatest.com/

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Orange County, CA
    Posts
    92
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: Is Software QA a dinosaur?

    The day of the pure functional tester might be going away slowly. But I think that it's a much more exciting day for those who are a bit more ambitious and flexible.

    If your idea of software test engineering is reading large amounts of checklists with many verbose requirements for form validations, then it will become more difficult as time goes on to survive in the increasingly online service based applications.

    Understanding how to drive projects and work with operational requirements is way more useful than being able to write 500 test cases to verify boundary conditions on a customer information form.

    In an agile environment, you need to work with business analysts, developers, project managers and other testers and figure out how to facilitate the process and help drive the release. If you're able to do effective performance testing and build test frameworks, then all the better.

    Finally, being able to lead and do technical hands-on work, is going to keep you highly in demand.

    Pure black-box, GUI skills will keep you limited and may eventually make you an exhibit at the Smithsonian...but there is still a need for those skills. Just augment them now!
    Eric Jones
    Chief Testing Consultant

    ericj@qualitystart.org
    QualityStart.org

    http://www.qualitystart.org
    "In Software Testing, The Right Start Is Everything!"

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    3,628
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Re: Is Software QA a dinosaur?

    I think that Eric has it right. Although I think that just dismissing the "QA is a dinosaur" comment would be as ignorant as the statement as itself.

    This isn't the first time I've heard this type of statement and there is good reason. One of those reasons is that some, not all, places are creating their processes around texts that are 20 years old now! Maybe more!! This is ridiculous, and to think that the process of testing is timeless is what makes for a poorly-managed process.

    We're at a point now where we must adapt more quickly. To do this we're required to be more familiar with the system that we're testing. Assembly-line testing is slowly disappearing and if you're feeling the squeeze, then you're the one being phased out. Testing is now too quick for archaic testing practices and, whether we choose to believe it or not, ultimately creates waste and costs the company money.

    So when we fail to adapt to new processes we ultimately fail in moving ourselves forward and we will fall prey to an ice age at some point, probably when our cost outweighs our usefullness. The way we avoid this is through adaptation.

    Remember, C++ is almost 30 years old now, but you never hear anyone calling it a dinosaur. True, it's a language, a foundation, but that's ultimately what testing is. Testing is the foundation, the unchanged factor, but it's the processes we use to execute that testing that become dinosaurs.
    Brent
    --------------------
    9 out of 10 people I prove wrong agree that I'm right. The other person is my wife.
    --------------------

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.40 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 10.00%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.7.1 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBNominate (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Username Changing provided by Username Change (Free) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
BetaSoft Inc.
Digital Point modules: Sphinx-based search
All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:30 PM.

Copyright BetaSoft Inc.