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  1. #1
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    developer or tester - who to hire

    A number of tools that are moving away from proprietary scripting languages. You can now use VBA, VBSCript and Java amongst other things for your scripting. how many of you think that as a consequence it is now viable to hire developers to write test automation scripts.




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    GUI automation is GUI automation. It is not testing.

  2. #2
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    Re: developer or tester - who to hire

    Developers and testers think differently. there have been a handful of published articles on the subject already and I'm sure more will follow.

    You need to do what's best for your company and if you can get more testers by using the logic that QA is a good stepping stone... well more warm bodies to throw at a project can be better.

    But if you're looking to hire, train, compensate and keep good testers... hire testers.

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  3. #3
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    Re: developer or tester - who to hire

    but what if they can't code?

    ------------------
    GUI automation is GUI automation. It is not testing.

  4. #4
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    Re: developer or tester - who to hire

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wooks:
    A number of tools that are moving away from proprietary scripting languages. You can now use VBA, VBSCript and Java amongst other things for your scripting. how many of you think that as a consequence it is now viable to hire developers to write test automation scripts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    If all you wish to accomplish is to get some scripts written, I imagine it wouldn't matter if you hired either. I'm not sure how the "proprietariness" of the language changes that.

    If, however, you actually want to get some testing done, I'd hire a tester.

    --------------------------------
    test automation is test automation. It is not testing.
    ------------------
    - Joe (strazzerj@aol.com)

    [This message has been edited by jstrazzere (edited 07-24-2002).]
    Joe Strazzere
    Visit my website: AllThingsQuality.com to learn more about quality, testing, and QA!

  5. #5
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    Re: developer or tester - who to hire

    To implement these tools, I think you need at least some minimum number of decent code slingers on the team. I would not put much weight on experience with specific languages, though naturally it's a plus if they already know the one you'll be using. All the testing and subject matter expertise in the world won't help if they can only do basic record/playback.

    So ideally I'd want at least one or two tool experts with good programming skills and at least basic testing knowledge who can implement test designs from the testing experts. If, however, it's to be a one person test automation effort, and after the interview process I was down to one person with excellent coding but very little testing skills, and another with the opposite balance, I'd tend to opt for the strong programmer. This may be somewhat personal to me, as I think I could get them up to a usable level of knowledge in testing theory much more quickly and cheaply than training a tester with no programming experience how to code.

    Of course, I'd much prefer finding someone with both skill sets. (Maybe Joe's available? )

    ------------------
    Charles Reace (charles{DOT}reace{AT}verizon{DOT}net)

    #!/usr/bin/perl
    if($QA != $Testing) { printf "Right\n"; }
    else { printf "Wrong\n"; }


    [This message has been edited by Charles Reace (edited 07-24-2002).]
    web site | [url=http://www.ebookworm.us/[/url]

    [i]...Sound trumpets! Every trumpet in the host! / Sixty thousand, on these words, sound, so high the mountains sound, and the valleys resound.&lt;/i] (The Song of Roland)

  6. #6
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    Re: developer or tester - who to hire

    Let me restate the problem.

    The requirement is to write test automation scripts.

    The tool uses native VBScript.

    For arguments sake a tester proficient in VBScript is outside your budget. Would you hire a VBScript developer or a tester.




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    GUI automation is GUI automation. It is not testing.

  7. #7
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    Re: developer or tester - who to hire

    Almost all of the testers in my organization could fill roles as jr to mid level developers as needed. Some of our folks start as testers and move into development, and some the other way around.

    That, however, is a rare breed. Most "hard core" developers are completely bored by test automation, and many testers would rather not code. That is why most of the test automation tools are "record/edit/playback". A good tester can be trained to create extremely complex automated scripts, especially if they have a developer at their disposal to assist them when needed.

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    Scott Barber
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    Scott Barber
    Chief Technologist, PerfTestPlus
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    sbarber@perftestplus.com

    If you can see it in your mind...
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  8. #8
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    Re: developer or tester - who to hire

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wooks:
    Let me restate the problem.

    The requirement is to write test automation scripts.

    The tool uses native VBScript.

    For arguments sake a tester proficient in VBScript is outside your budget. Would you hire a VBScript developer or a tester.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Caveat: one or two specific skill areas would not be my sole, deciding critera. Assuming all the "other" criteria are generally a wash, my preferences would be in this order (I think):

    1. Hire a good VBscript programmer who also has a good testing background.
    2. Hire a good programmer (other languages) who also has a good testing background.
    3. Hire a good VBScript coder who has some testing background.
    4. Hire a good programmer (other languages) who has some testing background.
    5. Hire a good tester who has some experience with VBScript.
    6. Hire a good tester who has some experience with programming in general.
    7. Hire a good VBScript programmer with no testing background.
    8. Hire a good programmer (other languages) with no testing background.
    9. Hire a good tester with no programming background.
    10. Hire a music major.

    So I guess in your more-or-less black-or-white scenario, items 7-9 state my preferences? If your limited to one of those choices, then an important criteria would have to be how trainable you think the candidate is to pick up the skills s/he lacks.

    ------------------
    Charles Reace (charles{DOT}reace{AT}verizon{DOT}net)

    #!/usr/bin/perl
    if($QA != $Testing) { printf "Right\n"; }
    else { printf "Wrong\n"; }
    web site | [url=http://www.ebookworm.us/[/url]

    [i]...Sound trumpets! Every trumpet in the host! / Sixty thousand, on these words, sound, so high the mountains sound, and the valleys resound.&lt;/i] (The Song of Roland)

  9. #9
    Moderator Joe Strazzere's Avatar
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    Re: developer or tester - who to hire

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wooks:
    Let me restate the problem.

    The requirement is to write test automation scripts.

    The tool uses native VBScript.

    For arguments sake a tester proficient in VBScript is outside your budget. Would you hire a VBScript developer or a tester.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I'm assuming the real requirement is more than just to "write {some arbitrary} test automation scripts".
    I'll assume that you already know exactly what these scripts should do (that is, you are well past the "write scripts to test my program" stage.) I'll also assume that the environment (application?) against which these scripts must run is already itself working. I'll also assume that once these scripts are written, the new hire's job is done - someone else will actually run the scripts, analyze the results, and report the bugs found.

    Given these assumptions, I'd hire someone fluent in the language you have chosen - VBScript. That person may be a programmer, tester, help desk supervisor, receptionist, me, my teenage son, etc. If you arbitrarily decide to exclude the combination of tester+someone-who-knows-VBScript, then that limits your choices a bit. I'm not sure why you would wish to consider only that combination outside your budget, but that's your right - it's your budget.

    ------------------
    - Joe (strazzerj@aol.com)

    [This message has been edited by jstrazzere (edited 07-24-2002).]
    Joe Strazzere
    Visit my website: AllThingsQuality.com to learn more about quality, testing, and QA!

  10. #10
    Moderator Joe Strazzere's Avatar
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    Re: developer or tester - who to hire

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Charles Reace:
    Of course, I'd much prefer finding someone with both skill sets. (Maybe Joe's available? )
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Thanks! Actually, I am available, but this isn't a job forum, unfortunately.

    ------------------
    - Joe (strazzerj@aol.com)

    [This message has been edited by jstrazzere (edited 07-24-2002).]
    Joe Strazzere
    Visit my website: AllThingsQuality.com to learn more about quality, testing, and QA!

 

 
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