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Thread: Head to Head

  1. #1
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    Head to Head

    Yes it is me.
    Yes I do want help with tool selection.
    Here is my thinking.

    I have come to the conlusion elsewhere on these forums, that the strategic, enterprise solution type approach to test automation is wrong. Test automation is neither a strategic activity, nor enterprise testing solution. But it is useful.

    Spreadsheets are useful too. If I were to start a testing a new system, I wouldn't think twice about using one. I wouldn't go through an evaluation process, or proof of concept, just crank it up and start doing useful stuff with it.

    So why is my approach to test automation different. Why does automated test tool use qualify as stratgic to the enterprise, whereas spreadsheet use doesn't. The only reason I can think of is the price tag of the tool set. That is what puts an enterprise focus on test automation.

    I do not want to go through the rigours of pleading a case to management to invest in one of these toolsets. Meither do I want to spend a week evaluatiing them. AFAIC an automated test tool capability is useful to have, it's not a testing solution, but give it to me, I'm sure I can do something useful with it.

    So I want a tool that suits my vision of automated testing use.
    Criteria - Price $700 absolute tops, no obscure scripting languages.

    Two spring to mind.

    AQTest and Visual Test.

    I'm looking for views on these two and anymore candidates, with their credentials stated.

    This should be fun.



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    Software Testing FAQ http://www.cigital.com/c.s.t.faq.html

  2. #2
    Moderator Joe Strazzere's Avatar
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    Re: Head to Head

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wooks:
    So I want a tool that suits my vision of automated testing use.
    Criteria - Price $700 absolute tops, no obscure scripting languages.

    Two spring to mind.

    AQTest and Visual Test.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    wooks,

    If your only criteria are < $700 and "no obscure scripting languages" as well as something that "Suits your vision", either will probably suffice. That assumes you only wish to do functional testing within this budget. It also assumes you don't consider the languages usde by these products as "obscure".

    But AQTest is probably more up your alley, based on my reading of your comments about COM and your frustrations with the TSL language.

    If you extended your criteria to include ongoing support, vendor reliability, compatibility with what others in your company are doing, etc, etc, that recommendation might change.

    But haven't you usually stated that you'd rather use the same tool in which the application-under-test was developed? What's different here?

    ------------------
    - Joe (strazzerj@aol.com)

    [This message has been edited by jstrazzere (edited 04-21-2002).]
    Joe Strazzere
    Visit my website: AllThingsQuality.com to learn more about quality, testing, and QA!

  3. #3
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    Re: Head to Head

    Hi Joe,

    The "vision" here is to use this tool pretty much as an extension of an MS Office type suite.

    By virtue of having an "Office Suite" type product on the desktop people crank up, spreadsheets, databases and document solutions with minimum fuss. Some code VBA(or equivalent), some use macros, I'd imagine there are some still using Word Basic. These things are not typically deployed as enterprise solutions (although they could be) and for the type of usage I envisage, the issues you raised simply won't arise (when was the last time you called MS tech support, for an Office product).

    The "no obscure scripting language" stipulation stops things from getting too esoteric. IIRC AQTest uses C++, VBScript and Perl. VT is close enough to VB. You shouldn't get a hard time for coding in those, people use Perl and stuff all the time, regardless of enterprise wide considerations.

    Heck, at <$700 I'd even put up with TSL.

    Again IIRC VT gives me a web testing capability and Visual Studio but makes me use DLL's instead of COM and is not real VB. AQTest gives me COM and real scripting languages, but not web (but I can get that elsewhere I think).

    My testing preferences have not changed. Optimally, I want to test early (from a design model), in the language of development (for unit test if I'm doing it), and whenever possible away from the GUI. I recognise that some GUI testing is necessary and so I whip out my automated tool and knock up what I can, but all my mission critical testing is being done underneath the GUI with other tools/techniques.

    This will not necessarily work well for your GUI centric, graphically intensive systems, for which you probably need specialised knowledge and more specialised toolds for anyway, but for your bread and butter GUI over accounting system etc type application etc, I think it will work fine.

    One more criteria which both these tools seem to meet. Cheap deployment of executables.!!


  4. #4
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    Re: Head to Head

    PS If Microsoft had packaged VT as part of Office, instead of selling it to Rational (or made it a freebie), that would probably be the way we work anyway, don't u think?

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  5. #5
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    Re: Head to Head

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wooks:
    Heck, at <$700 I'd even put up with TSL.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No, you wouldn't!

    At least not if I have read your WinRunner posts correctly. I don't recall that you made much of an issue about the price.

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  6. #6
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    Re: Head to Head

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wooks:
    PS If Microsoft had packaged VT as part of Office, instead of selling it to Rational (or made it a freebie), that would probably be the way we work anyway, don't u think?

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Well, maybe.
    MS-Access is included in some flavors of Office, right?
    Some folks use Access for some projects. For other projects, it's not appropriate.

    After re-reading some of your posts, it seems that Office is at the center of much of what you do. I'm not sure that's the case in other QA groups - certainly not in mine, anyway.

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    Joe Strazzere
    Visit my website: AllThingsQuality.com to learn more about quality, testing, and QA!

  7. #7
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    Re: Head to Head

    For "Office" read ..Whatever the box of tricks u have on your desktop is Star, Lotus, Corel etc......thats the concept. Thats the level I see my automation at.

    If u see yours differently it's cool.

    Meanwhile in I have resolved my dilemma on which of the 2 to go for. It's cheap enough to have both.


  8. #8
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    Re: Head to Head

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wooks:
    Meanwhile in I have resolved my dilemma on which of the 2 to go for. It's cheap enough to have both. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That's curious.
    Other than the fact that "it's cheap enough", I have to assume you have found something that cannot be done as well with either tool by itself.
    Can you tell us more about when you will choose to use AQTest and when you will use Visual Test?

    ------------------
    - Joe (strazzerj@aol.com)

    [This message has been edited by jstrazzere (edited 04-22-2002).]
    Joe Strazzere
    Visit my website: AllThingsQuality.com to learn more about quality, testing, and QA!

  9. #9
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    Re: Head to Head

    I'm not on a strategic mission just wanna get something automated. Delphi app - probably resort to AQTest first. Web VT. With time I'm sure I'll figure out which is best for what environment.

    I'm not relying on either for heavy duty mission critical tests. That stuff gets done beneath the GUI.



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  10. #10
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    Re: Head to Head

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jstrazzere:
    No, you wouldn't!

    At least not if I have read your WinRunner posts correctly. I don't recall that you made much of an issue about the price.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yes I would. I was about to say that VT Basic is a similar evil. Then I looked at my VT Bible and noted that not only do I get pointers, but I also get user defined data structures and a Visual Studio Interface. Hmmmm or should I say oops.

    But seriously, I would put up with TSL at that price (which is not the same as saying I'd select it over VT). The GUI map has compensating features.

    ------------------
    GUI automation has no strategic credentials. Neither does any toolset that purports to support it.

 

 
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